20130919 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission

[Yorkshire pud]

Man you must really be pissed at Hoagland.

Maybe the paranoia lived on; Long after the cessation of the pot in the 70's? 

[Falkie2013]

YOU obviously misunderstood my point.

Its not about safety, health issues or anything having to do with that.

I am not against safe foods, medicines and safety in products and the workplace and home and on the roads or transportation networks.

Its about intrusion into people's lives by the advocates and promoters of the nanny state.

They tell people what to do with no input or accountability from the public.

Because they feel they have the RIGHT to do so and that they KNOW better than you do how to govern YOUR lives.

And also because deep down, they'd never ADMIT that they do not care to hear that YOU object to their pronouncements, rules, regulations, executive orders, laws or edicts.

Just comply and STFU like the low information drones that they wish all of us would be.

Like Bloomberg's edicts on drinking 32 oz sodas which were promptly shut down by a court.

Government agencies, bureaucrats, politicians and the wives of politicians ( see Michelle Obama ) tell all of us what to do in OUR lives because we collectively ALLOW them to do so.

The silent majority allow a vocal minority to dictate policy and laws.

I'm for the government intruding in our lives as little as possible, but the floodgates were opened years ago with the income tax, the creation of the Fed, Executive Orders at both state and Federal levels and so much more.

If we remain complacent then they can walk all over us.

And THAT is how they erode our rights, freedom and the little privacy we have left.

Not by a gun but by a piece of paper.

[UnscreenedCaller]

Unfortunately I have to go to bed too early to get more than the first 20 or so minutes of Art's show. I really miss the live commentary here, but I found out that if I go On Demand and time it right, the commentary goes along with the show. You guys rock. You had me laughing out loud so many times, but when Hoagland read Jorch's email on air and busted him, that was the very best and so was "It's called a conversation, George". Music to my ears!

Thank you guys for the commentary which just adds another dimension of awesome to the show. For the record, I thought RCH made a very pointed remark about waking up from a 10 year sleep, and was revelling in having a challenging discussion instead of running wild. And Art - he's the gold standard and always will be.

[michio]

Unfortunately I have to go to bed too early to get more than the first 20 or so minutes of Art's show. I really miss the live commentary here, but I found out that if I go On Demand and time it right, the commentary goes along with the show. You guys rock. You had me laughing out loud so many times, but when Hoagland read Jorch's email on air and busted him, that was the very best and so was "It's called a conversation, George". Music to my ears!

Thank you guys for the commentary which just adds another dimension of awesome to the show. For the record, I thought RCH made a very pointed remark about waking up from a 10 year sleep, and was revelling in having a challenging discussion instead of running wild. And Art - he's the gold standard and always will be.

I'm greatly disappointed in Georgie (I know, what's new). Why does sNoory think it necessary to intrude on Art's territory and program with his cutesy little messages to Hoaxland while on-air, and with Art being forced to respond to them in some capacity because of Hoaxland's reference to them. It strikes me as classless and attention whore-ish behavior on the part of sNoory.  Also, if Hoaxland had any class himself he would have kept his private messages from Nooron to himself and left Art out of it. I expect that would be too much to expect from those two.

[UnscreenedCaller]

I kind of liked that Hoagland spilled the beans. It was a gutsy move, considering he's a guest on Snoory's show, too, but he wasn't going to be party to Snoory's BS behind the scenes. And, Art being a pro, handled it beautifully, turning it into a teaching moment for the Snooron who thought he was going to have a little us vs them trash talk behind the scenes with his BFF science adviser.

[Falkie2013]

I'm greatly disappointed in Georgie (I know, what's new). Why does sNoory think it necessary to intrude on Art's territory and program with his cutesy little messages to Hoaxland while on-air, and with Art being forced to respond to them in some capacity because of Hoaxland's reference to them. It strikes me as classless and attention whore-ish behavior on the part of sNoory.  Also, if Hoaxland had any class himself he would have kept his private messages from Nooron to himself and left Art out of it. I expect that would be too much to expect from those two.

It may have been that Richard may have been so startled to get one from Snoory while he was on the air that he didn't know quite HOW to react.

I thought it was indicative of how the Snooreon will go to any lengths to promote himself and even intrude on what should be someone else's parade and moment of glory.

Not that Art needs any help in that department being the master of the airwaves.

By the way, I've started publishing videos on You Tube on my You Tube channel.

I apologize for doing it on my Iphone 4. I'm still learning how to do things on there, my Iphone and my Imac as well.

As soon as I am able I'm going to buy either a camera with video capabilities or a new video camera.

Next week I'm going to take my Imac into the Apple store because it has had problems since I killed my other keyboard and find out how to start using the built in video camera on my Imac. I've only tried it once but haven't been able to put music inside a video nor do I know how to insert videos and pictures inside what I'm recording. It will happen as I become more proficient.

Here's the one where I mention Glendon Cameron, Ross Howard and Art's new show as well as Bellgab.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GiSK_lLIts

Just out of curiousity, I keep seeing BellGab down for maintenance a lot. Have we overwhelmed MV's servers ?

A case of doing too good a job of promoting Art's new show ?

[awake]

This pic from RCH got me thinking of blue quartz.
I'm not well versed in minerals or if there even is quartz on mars. Maybe the Bellgab science advisers (Astro or Bob) might be so kind to chime in here.
RCH likes to follow these wild speculation trails and create controversy when he should look for simple explanations. His beard should be shaved by an Ockham's Razor.

[attachimg=1]

Blue Quartz:
[attachimg=2]


EDIT: I found this article on the filters they use on photos from Mars.


http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/why-are-there-blue-rocks-in-the-latest-photos-from-mars/261149/

Stuart is definitely the Mars guy but I haven't seen him post in this forum at all yet.  But he's in Colorado so maybe the storms have him tending to other issues?
In any event, the rocks in the link you posted (thanks for that, great explantation) look sorta' like the ones we get out in the desert with rock varnish.  Sandstone gets a layer of the stuff just from being out in the sun.  They get a blue/black layer that can even have a bit of a shine to them.  Or, it could be alien technology.

[awake]

I have to agree with Hoagland in regards to two things. The object in the ninth photo doesn't look like an ordinary rock. Like he and Art say, it's extremely odd that the Apollo astronauts have what seems to be amnesia when attempting to remember how they felt when they were on the moon. By the way, NASA just announced that the Mars rover found no signs of methane (insert your own joke), indicative of life, on the Red Planet, so that could be fodder for a future Dark Matter with RH.

I wouldn't take rch's word at face value regarding the amount the astronauts recall of their emotions.  Alan Bean was in the Pioneer and Apollo programs and was so moved that he's made painting the missions into his new career.  [size=78%]http://www.astronautcentral.com/BEAN/Index.html[/size]  His work isn't my taste but it conveys emotion well.  I think it could be possible that the astronauts may have tired of answering the same trite "how'd it feel to walk on the moon?" questions after awhile.  Seems much more likely than a conspiracy involving "wiping" memories in the 1970's.

[sleeplessinca]

This pic from RCH got me thinking of blue quartz.
I'm not well versed in minerals or if there even is quartz on mars.

I collect minerals and I know bit about them. 
Quartz is just compressed silica. Silica is beach sand - plentiful on both Mars and Earth. Mars has lots of metamorphic rocks. Blue color simply comes from any number of mineral inclusions or impurities.
The unique character of the quartz is intriguing (cuz it's unique) but don't see any profound significance.
The discussion about why blue rocks on a red planet forgets the kicka$$ winds that blow the rusty iron rich dust off the non-red metamorphic rocks.
Hope that helps.

[PB the Deplorable]

I kind of liked that Hoagland spilled the beans. It was a gutsy move, considering he's a guest on Snoory's show, too, but he wasn't going to be party to Snoory's BS behind the scenes. And, Art being a pro, handled it beautifully, turning it into a teaching moment for the Snooron who thought he was going to have a little us vs them trash talk behind the scenes with his BFF science adviser.

Maybe that's a bit of insight on what Noory is doing during his show - sending and receiving texts.  It's clear he's just reading cue cards and not listening to the responses.  But what about Hoagland?  He can't do without his phone for a few hours either?



I think everyone knows Hoaxie has a massive ego and a certain distain for George, so nothing really changed.  They both know George needs 4 hours of content each night, and Hoagie fills his share of it.

It was funny that he was reading his texts from George and he and Art were dissing him on the air.  I have no doubt he will be back on George's show and George will act as if nothing happened.  He probably can't wait to get Hoagie back and plans to dish on Art with him.


One thing I don't think anyone mentioned was Richard C also getting a text from Robin about him sunding upset and angry.  Both George or Robin were texting that, and Hoagie was denying it, but I think Robin would know.  No one has challenged him for a long time, and he wasn't used to it at all.


Another thing I noticed was Art saying for people to be polite when they called.  He must have said it 10 times.  I wonder where he'd get the idea people didn't like Richard and might be rude when they called... (didn't happen, I think we have more respect for Art than that)...

 

[aldousburbank]

Back in the 1970s I used to smoke pot but stopped when some made me so paranoid I stayed up for 3 days with a baseball bat in my hands because it made me think people were going to storm my apartment and kill me.

Smoking pot does not cause paranoia. Reality does.

I think the caller from Weed California is classic. Either its a setup or coincidental but how do you take marijuana and not get stoned ?

You start out stoned.
Just one hippi's opinion.

[MV/Liberace!]

Don't know about adding wire for a bigger antenna, but here is info on the hack for boosting output power via an internal adjustment:
http://www.outlawradio.us/CCrane_Mod.html

from the article: "After I did the MOD. the range went from 20 feet to over 700 feet"

you know what... now that i see the image of this transmitter, i recall that i used to have one.  it was utterly useless.  the FM signal it produced was noisy and at times insufferable, even while positioned within a foot of the stereo.  who knows... perhaps they've improved the design since then.  this was back in 2004.  yes, i did crank up the wattage pot.

[steelbotII]

Smoking pot does not cause paranoia. Reality does.
You start out stoned.
Just one hippi's opinion.

My own expert professional opinion of the matter, (PRE USAF career  : ) and POST! - (about 12yrs of daily use)  I can tell ya, the only paranoia I've ever felt was by other people creating it.  Its always been my experience to some degree that people have the effect they desire with any substance.  If you someone says THIS will get you really drunk! then you're gonna get drunk, almost placeboed effect there.  Now that's not saying if you have a drink or two you'll be falling over or anything, just the same can be said for other substances such as pot.  I've never found it to control me, and even having been a daily heavy smoker, I was able to drop it without any side-effects or dd's when I joined the military.  In my research *Snickers* - I found it to cause me to become more creative within the visual arts category, and most definitely assisted in the creation of some of my best artwork from mid highschool-post graduation.  Additionally, I was a pretty good functioning smoker when it came time to work as well.  To the point, I drove a forklift moving 100k lbs equipment onto flatbed semi's and never once had an accident, nor was I unable to accomplish my tasks due to "sleepyness". 

NOW with that said, I'm not disillusioned that some people really react poorly to their body's interaction with certain chemicals.  I can even attest to the fact that I on occasion could get to a "Man I'm so baked" position at times, when I wasn't doing anything, or sitting at home enjoying it in that privacy atmosphere, but again, never to the point I was to 'bombed' to drive for instance.  just my 2 shakes on that matter =P  (and yes I'm pretty much only referencing HIGH thc contented herbal remedies here!)

-Steelbot

-Art Bell's Dark Matter - Live on SiriusXM channel 104 -
-Additional Live/Replays Re-transmission on -->> http://tinyurl.com/okxkjod <<--

[scottydawg]

Well I'm hoping RCH did it as his bridge burning to Crap2Crap AM. The show has turned into 45 minutes of turd farm with 15 minutes of annoying commercials

[sleeplessinca]

Smoking pot does not cause paranoia. Reality does.
You start out stoned.
Just one hippi's opinion.

I resemble that remark. 
My medical expert type friends say the THC messes with the serotonin system. 
Some of us creative types are already down that road far enough.
The thoughts flow just fine. 
Falkie seems like he might be in the club; lots of words and speaks his truth.
Doesn't it kind of intensify your current mental state?

[Falkie2013]

you know what... now that i see the image of this transmitter, i recall that i used to have one.  it was utterly useless.  the FM signal it produced was noisy and at times insufferable, even while positioned within a foot of the stereo.  who knows... perhaps they've improved the design since then.  this was back in 2004.  yes, i did crank up the wattage pot.

Yeah, those steam powered transmitters were a bitch back in the olden days, weren't they ?



I couldn't resist.

[Falkie2013]

I resemble that remark. 
My medical expert type friends say the THC messes with the serotonin system. 
Some of us creative types are already down that road far enough.
The thoughts flow just fine. 
Falkie seems like he might be in the club; lots of words and speaks his truth.
Doesn't it kind of intensify your current mental state?

I think I smoked pot all of 3 times before I quit.

I knew people who used it all there lives.

Some were able to work and function with no problem.

Others couldn't do anything but sit and smoke weed and couldn't live without it.

You think this is bad, you should see some of my college terms papers.

100+ pages with footnotes, annotated and with references.

But then I've always been a bit of a completist.

I was turning in typed and bound papers on Lenin and Poe when I was back in the 4th grade when other kids were turning in 1 page.

Papers got me A;s though my instructors ran in terror when they saw me coming.

One even had me teach his class one night when he developed laryngitis and it was too late to calll for a substitute.

That was in American History in colllege. I knew the subject and have taken every college course dealing with history that they offered.

If life hadn't gotten in the way. I might have become a professor.

[sleeplessinca]

About that blue quartz...I was thinking it over while out in the hills today ... I wasn't quite right - sorry.  Quartz is formed when super-saturated silica dissolved in hot volcanic water cools and crystalizes inside pockets of bedrock.  I guess that makes it igneous as it is temperature - not pressure that forms it.

I have dug out some amazing specimens myself and should have known the process better.

I guess the significance of quartz on Mars is more evidence of water and vulcanism/heat? 

As for the blue color, I still don't see the significance of it.  Quartz is common and comes in many colors and forms here on earth.  The color is simply due to an interaction between mineral inclusions and temperature profile.

For instance, amethyst is a purple quartz sometimes found with citron, a yellow quartz.  Sometimes they occur in the same specimen.  They can be of semi-precious gem quality and command a decent price.

Everyone has seen rose and smokey quartz. There are super beautiful crystal clear ones called Herkimer Diamonds and ones with other minerals like gold or rutile crystalized inside them.  It's a really interesting mineral - and one that would be expected on a planet that had water and vulcanism.
Herkimer Diamond

Quartz with Iron Oxide - (something you could expect to find on mars)

Probably more than you wanted to know...

[ziznak]

About that blue quartz...I was thinking it over while out in the hills today ... I wasn't quite right - sorry.  Quartz is formed when super-saturated silica dissolved in hot volcanic water cools and crystalizes inside pockets of bedrock.  I guess that makes it igneous as it is temperature - not pressure that forms it.

I have dug out some amazing specimens myself and should have known the process better.

I guess the significance of quartz on Mars is more evidence of water and vulcanism/heat? 

As for the blue color, I still don't see the significance of it.  Quartz is common and comes in many colors and forms here on earth.  The color is simply due to an interaction between mineral inclusions and temperature profile.

For instance, amethyst is a purple quartz sometimes found with citron, a yellow quartz.  Sometimes they occur in the same specimen.  They can be of semi-precious gem quality and command a decent price.

Everyone has seen rose and smokey quartz. There are super beautiful crystal clear ones called Herkimer Diamonds and ones with other minerals like gold or rutile crystalized inside them.  It's a really interesting mineral - and one that would be expected on a planet that had water and vulcanism.
Herkimer Diamond

Quartz with Iron Oxide - (something you could expect to find on mars)

Probably more than you wanted to know...

nope really cool post actually

[eddie dean]

About that blue quartz...I was thinking it over while out in the hills today ... I wasn't quite right - sorry.  Quartz is formed when super-saturated silica dissolved in hot volcanic water cools and crystalizes inside pockets of bedrock.  I guess that makes it igneous as it is temperature - not pressure that forms it.

I have dug out some amazing specimens myself and should have known the process better.

I guess the significance of quartz on Mars is more evidence of water and vulcanism/heat? 

As for the blue color, I still don't see the significance of it.  Quartz is common and comes in many colors and forms here on earth.  The color is simply due to an interaction between mineral inclusions and temperature profile.

For instance, amethyst is a purple quartz sometimes found with citron, a yellow quartz.  Sometimes they occur in the same specimen.  They can be of semi-precious gem quality and command a decent price.

Everyone has seen rose and smokey quartz. There are super beautiful crystal clear ones called Herkimer Diamonds and ones with other minerals like gold or rutile crystalized inside them.  It's a really interesting mineral - and one that would be expected on a planet that had water and vulcanism.
Herkimer Diamond

Quartz with Iron Oxide - (something you could expect to find on mars)

Probably more than you wanted to know...

Thanks!
In my original post about blue quartz, I was pondering alternative theories for the blue color in RCH pics. I did a search soon after, and posted a link about the types of photographic filters scientists use to enulate earth's sunlight properties on Mars pics. This info confirmed my suspections that there was a simple explanation as to the  blue, aqua hue of the rocks on the red planet. I also learned from your informative posts, there is likely quartz on Mars.
The signifigence is, RCH will see Data's head, a staircase and glass domes when there is none. He tries to make sense of chaos and is usually wrong, but Art can make his strange theories entertaining for sure.

[ziznak]

but what about the pipe???  Seemed like that was the closest thing to RCH's newest white crow. 

and I can't wait til he gets his eyes on the pics of Han from Mercury. great find stevesh

[lonevoice]

but what about the pipe???  Seemed like that was the closest thing to RCH's newest white crow. 

Every time RCH mentioned the white crow, I wondered if he had read Taleb's book "The Black Swan," which built on the Black Swan Problem of scientific philosophy advanced by Karl Popper.  I'd never heard of RCH's "Hopi legend" of the white crow.  But, when it comes to RCH, sometimes things aren't so black and white.   

[saucerlike]

I'm so looking forward to Monday when the Ghost Investigators Society is on the show. I know some people don't like them but they scare the shit out of me. I also admired their group is non-profit which gave them a legit vibe. I don't know what it is they're recording but listening to that in the dark is incredibly disturbing.

Thank God you're back, Art. I missed the shit out of you.

Great post, I totally agree about the GIS.  Been wondering if these guys would ever be back with some new stuff, now that they are I'm happy.  Great to have Art back and the live comments here are the icing on the cake.

[VictoriaPandora]

well, it sounded like the caller from weed was having health problems and the pot was helping... so that's cool.
today sean asked everyone to email arts producer and tell him how much they are looking forward to him being on his show sometime. and then commented that arts new show was receiving less than glowing reviews.
hmmm.
as per usual i am probably beating a dead thread, but ... well my excuses are of no consequence.
i am just glad it is monday! how often do you hear that? lol.

[jazmunda]

I agree with others that have suggested that RCH is a lot more palettable with Art.

I found photo 9 to be very compelling but I strongly disagree with RCH's assertion that based on this photo it proves that an ancient civilization once existed on Mars.

Just because the photo was compelling does not mean that it wasn't just a strange looking rock that happened to look like some ancient junk with a pipe sticking out of it. He makes a huge leap from it being a rock that resembles something to it being the remains of an ancient civilization. He also seem to poo poo the fact that it could be debris from the failed mars missions that have been lost and could have crashed on the planet.

He also stated that that photo isn't the only one he has that looks like something. He said he had a whole lot of them. Well RCH, photo number 9 was one of the most compelling photos I have seem from you. If you have a whole heap of them then for mars sake do a whole show with just those compelling photos and not grainy photos from the 60s that are supposed to be a "dome" but could be anything. Show me the money.

[eddie dean]

I agree with others that have suggested that RCH is a lot more palettable with Art.

I found photo 9 to be very compelling but I strongly disagree with RCH's assertion that based on this photo it proves that an ancient civilization once existed on Mars.

Just because the photo was compelling does not mean that it wasn't just a strange looking rock that happened to look like some ancient junk with a pipe sticking out of it. He makes a huge leap from it being a rock that resembles something to it being the remains of an ancient civilization. He also seem to poo poo the fact that it could be debris from the failed mars missions that have been lost and could have crashed on the planet.

He also stated that that photo isn't the only one he has that looks like something. He said he had a whole lot of them. Well RCH, photo number 9 was one of the most compelling photos I have seem from you. If you have a whole heap of them then for mars sake do a whole show with just those compelling photos and not grainy photos from the 60s that are supposed to be a "dome" but could be anything. Show me the money.

Good post Jaz!
RCH is the master of jumping to conclusions. You could get a 2 hour story about the history of eastern food crops and ET's  influence on genetic engineering by showing him a picture of a grain of rice.
He is the king of the tease too. He always hints about some huge,  ground breaking  bomb he is about to drop, but it never seems to happen. Humm. 

[sleeplessinca]

Good post Jaz!
RCH is the master of jumping to conclusions. You could get a 2 hour story about the history of eastern food crops and ET's  influence on genetic engineering by showing him a picture of a grain of rice.
He is the king of the tease too. He always hints about some huge,  ground breaking  bomb he is about to drop, but it never seems to happen. Humm.

Bumper: Take the Long Way Home

[The Coincidence Kid]

I agree with others that have suggested that RCH is a lot more palettable with Art.

I found photo 9 to be very compelling but I strongly disagree with RCH's assertion that based on this photo it proves that an ancient civilization once existed on Mars.

Just because the photo was compelling does not mean that it wasn't just a strange looking rock that happened to look like some ancient junk with a pipe sticking out of it. He makes a huge leap from it being a rock that resembles something to it being the remains of an ancient civilization. He also seem to poo poo the fact that it could be debris from the failed mars missions that have been lost and could have crashed on the planet.

Yup.

The notion that symmetry = artificial is laughable to a nature lover, let alone a geologist, or biologist, or natural scientist of any kind. The thing looked very much like certain rock formations you see anywhere that erosion is at work. An yeah, it had a dark spot on it. Hooray, dark spot. There's really no question as to whether Hoagland is full of it, which is actually the only redeemable/entertaining thing about him. I'm kind of chagrined that Art took to that image so readily but oh well, he's still the master and he does make listening to bullshitters like Hoagland and Reed not only palatable but entertaining as well.

[MV/Liberace!]

I'm still in Morocco, and Dark Matter starts at 3AM here.  Because of that, I haven't had the chance to actively listen to a single show yet... with the exception of Hoagland's appearance.  The contrast between Art's approach to interviewing RCH and George's approach couldn't be more apparent.  I actually ENJOY an RCH appearance when Art's hosting.  Art doesn't suffer fools, isn't afraid to challenge/confront RCH, and maintains control of the conversation.  George always failed miserably on all of those fronts with any guest, but particularly with RCH.

As I was listening to Art's Hoagland interview, it felt like 1997 all over again.  I can't believe Art's back and with 4 shows PER WEEK and doing it better than ever.  No sane person believed this was coming.  I clearly remember getting jazzed just to hear Art once or twice per month.  Man.  Glad those days are over.

[VictoriaPandora]

so, here i am on the wrong thread not just beating a dead horse, but punching it right in the mouth like i am mel brooks or something.
sean david morton just announced that he would NOT be appearing on dark matter, oct. 1st as previously announced.
he went on to point out that his audience is much larger than art's anyway.

so, well, that is that i suppose.

i like sean because he has been a friend to me.
so... since i am not a movie start or anything...i will just pretend to be ignorant of the machinations of fame;)