Old plane buffs?

[West of the Rockies]

I think kit planes are incredible, although they seem too often to be under-powered and under-strength (design-wise). But little planes like the Goblin and "kit" planes are the closest we can get to the absolute freedom of a "Jetson's flying car", which is really what we want, and what we're trying to get to with these designs. So cool.

I don't think I expressed myself clearly -- I am not a pilot.  I wish I had a little Monogram or Revell model of that Goblin airplane to build and put on a shelf.  The actual plane looks like a deathtrap.

[DarkBroodings]

Huge WWII plane buff here. I've decorated my home with lithographs and prints signed by the original pilots. Love the Luftwaffe jets with a passion. Those evil geniuses! My favorite print is of Ar234s and Me262s bombing the bridge at Remagen. First combined jet bomber and fighter mission in history. Cheers.

[West of the Rockies]

Speaking of old planes, what is the prevailing theory these days on what became of Flight 19?  I'd love to see Art discuss the topic on DM.  I still find the opening of Close Encounters of the Third Kind (CE3K) to be utterly engaging. 

[area51drone]

I have a 4ch P51 that I haven't flown yet due to time and weather

How old is old though?  My favorite plane/jet is the F16.   It's older than I am.

[Centurion40]

[West of the Rockies]

That German-made plane looks like an exeriment just for experiment's sake.  (Sort of like if someone decided to start playing basketball with a square ball and hoop.)

[Yorkshire pud]

Speaking of old planes, what is the prevailing theory these days on what became of Flight 19?  I'd love to see Art discuss the topic on DM.  I still find the opening of Close Encounters of the Third Kind (CE3K) to be utterly engaging.

The training flight that got lost due to crap navigation?  I saw a documentary on it a few years ago, basically pilot(s) error.

[Yorkshire pud]

Here's a couple you might like...Before I tell you what it actually is, see if anyone can guess (I don't mean the aircraft type, it's a P38) why it might not be what it seems.  Arrrgggghhh!! I can't upload pics.

[Falkie2013]

Got a name for that plane ?

[Falkie2013]

Speaking of old planes, what is the prevailing theory these days on what became of Flight 19?  I'd love to see Art discuss the topic on DM.  I still find the opening of Close Encounters of the Third Kind (CE3K) to be utterly engaging.

The UFOs took flight 19, all those Comets, the Marine Sulfur Queen, the USS Cyclops and dumped off Noory as even they couldn't stomach anal probing him.

[Falkie2013]

What if it had gone fully operational as a fighter in, say, January of 1944, with a commitment to using the 262 as a bomber interceptor? It would have been useful only against the daylight attacks of the US 8th Air Force, so the RAF's Bomber Command would have been for the most part spared the potentially devastating attacks by massed squadrons of 262s carrying the horribly effective R4M rockets and the MG 108 30mm cannon . I shudder to think of how D-Day would have changed.

You've forgotten one important point. Hitler was obsessed with using new planes as bombers. So using them as interceptors wasn't going to happen en masse.
One weird thing about the Germans. They never developed a long range heavy bomber which is kind of weird if you think about it.
Also, if memory serves, the fuel used in the 262 was highly corrosive and they had a lot of planes crash on takeoff.

[Falkie2013]

Huge WWII plane buff here. I've decorated my home with lithographs and prints signed by the original pilots. Love the Luftwaffe jets with a passion. Those evil geniuses! My favorite print is of Ar234s and Me262s bombing the bridge at Remagen. First combined jet bomber and fighter mission in history. Cheers.

A friend of mine had about 50 of those Robert Taylor prints. He had them framed and stacked in his room above his main house.
He also had a huge automatic weapon collection.
Both the guns and the prints were beautiful and awe inspiring.

http://www.aviationarthangar.com/roberttaylor.html


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[Falkie2013]

A friend of mine had about 50 of those Robert Taylor prints. He had them framed and stacked in his room above his main house.
He also had a huge automatic weapon collection.
Both the guns and the prints were beautiful and awe inspiring.

http://www.aviationarthangar.com/roberttaylor.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_17366_7-wtf-military-weapons-you-wont-believe-they-actually-built.html

Here are 2 for you.


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[Yorkshire pud]

Also, if memory serves, the fuel used in the 262 was highly corrosive and they had a lot of planes crash on takeoff.

Don't you mean the Me163 Komet? That had really nasty fuel that dissolved the pilot if the aircraft broke up on landing, highly unstable.

[Centurion40]

Got a name for that plane ?

Top was a Me 262, but the picture blanked.

The next 2 come from Blohm & Voss (they still build ships).

The BV 141:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blohm_%26_Voss_BV_141

and the BV 138:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blohm_%26_Voss_BV_138

The Blohm & Voss and Dornier airplane designs have always captured my imagination.

For example, the Do 335, with fore and aft props:



Weirdly cool.

[Sardondi]

Wait - I've seen that plane, a long time ago. And Jimmy Stewart was flying it in some sand dunes....

[ItsOver]

Don't you mean the Me163 Komet? That had really nasty fuel that dissolved the pilot if the aircraft broke up on landing, highly unstable.

That is correct.  The Me163 used high-test peroxide, a potent oxidizer which reacts with a number of materials, such as pilots.   One of my treasured possessions is a photo signed by Rudolph Opitz.  Rudy was the Chief Test Pilot for the Me163 and not only survived flying the Komet and WWII but also made it to ripe age of 99.

http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-05-06_opitz.asp

[Unquenchable Angst]

P-47 and an area to find old plane film clips.
WW2 Shocking P-47 video,coloured and real

[Falkie2013]

Don't you mean the Me163 Komet? That had really nasty fuel that dissolved the pilot if the aircraft broke up on landing, highly unstable.

Yeah, it was the 163. Its been a long time since I looked at the specs for all of these aircraft.
One site said engine life was 10-12 hours because the Germans couldn't get the high quality metal for the engines.

From wikipedia :

Me 163B

The fuel system was particularly troublesome, as leaks incurred during hard landings easily caused fires and explosions. Metal fuel lines and fittings, which failed in unpredictable ways, were used as this was the best technology available. Both fuel and oxidizer were toxic and required extreme care when loading in the aircraft, yet there were occasions when Komets exploded on the tarmac from the propellants' hypergolic nature. Both propellants were clear fluids, with different tanker trucks used for delivering each propellant to a particular Komet aircraft, one at a time, with one truck - usually the one delivering the C-Stoff hydrazine/methanol-base fuel - leaving the immediate area of the aircraft following its delivery and capping off of the Komet's fuel tanks from a rear located dorsal fuselage filling point just ahead of the Komet's vertical stabilizer, before the other truck - most often an Opel Blitz tanker truck, of a special Ausführung S model carrying the very reactive T-Stoff hydrogen peroxide oxidizer would come anywhere near to deliver its oxidizer load to the fighter for safety reasons, through a different filling point on the Komet's dorsal fuselage surface, located not far behind the rear edge of the canopy. The corrosive nature of the liquids, especially for the T-Stoff oxidizer, required special protective gear for the pilots. To help prevent explosions, the Walter rocket engine and the Komet's propellant storage and delivery systems were frequently and thoroughly hosed down and flushed with water run through both the fuel and oxidizer tanks and rocket engine's propellant systems before and after flights, to clean out any remnants of the hypergolic fuel and oxidizer. The relative "closeness" to the pilot of some 120 litres (31.7 US gal) of the chemically active T-Stoff oxidizer, split between two auxiliary oxidizer tanks of equal volume to either side within the lower flanks of the cockpit area â€" besides the main oxidizer tank of some 1,040 litre (275 US gal) volume just behind the cockpit's rear wall, could present a serious or even fatal hazard to a pilot in a fuel-caused mishap with the Me 163B.

From 2 other sites :

But, as with any new technology, there were difficult lessons to be learned. The rocket used two propellants (both quite unstable and corrosive), that when they came in contact with each other, exploded, thus powering the rocket. HTP hydrogen peroxide mixed with hydrazine hydrate makes quite a bang! The stuff burned off very rapidly, giving just a few minutes of flight. As there were no wheels, the Me 163 landed on a skid, which was a bumpy proposition. Any residual fuels left in the tanks would then combine and explode; several aircraft were lost in just this manner. Even by itself, the HTP was highly corrosive, especially to any organic materials, so the pilots had to wear protective suits of synthetic materials. But sometimes it seeped into the cockpit, or worked through the seams of the overalls. On occasion, an Me 163 would just blow up while sitting on the ground.

Production Me 163Bs were not ready for operational use until July 1944. The Luftwaffe planned to have small units of Komets dispersed to intercept Allied bomber formations, but only 279 Me 163Bs were delivered by the end of the war. The sole operational Komet group, JG 400, scored nine kills while losing 14 of its own aircraft.


Swmtb said: ↑
I wonder if anyone is working on a ME163, those things were pretty crazy.

And would be an awful idea to build...the fuel was highly corrosive and unstable. basically an early form of liquid rocket fuel...two different fuels are caried and mixed, which creates the thrust. the oxidizer used was Hydrogen Peroxide in a form that was so strong that it could dissolve ground crew and pilots if handled improperly.

that and leaving your wheels on the ground and landing on a skid...good times.

[Unquenchable Angst]

B-29
World War II Bombers: B-29 Superfortress
Mosquito
DeHavilland Mosquito gun camera film - excellent!
Battle Stations - Mosquito Attack
Do335
Dornier Do 335 Pfeil (Arrow) - fastest piston engine fighter of WW2
XP-67
McDonnell XP-67 "Moonbat"-1945
Kyushu J7W1
Kyūshū J7W1 Shinden - experimental fighter
Arado Ar234 'Blitz'
World War II Bombers: Arado AR-234
Heinkel He-111
Wings of the Luftwaffe - He-111 - Secret Bombers (10 of 14)
PBY Black Cats
The Story of the Black Cat PBYs
Flying Boats
The Giants - flying boats
Blohm & Voss 238
Blohm & Voss BV238 Flying Boat
BV 138
Blohm und Voss Bv 138

[Unquenchable Angst]

The Flying Years - Aviation History - Full Documentary

[Threaten the Hoover]

I have a 4ch P51 that I haven't flown yet due to time and weather

How old is old though?  My favorite plane/jet is the F16.   It's older than I am.

dont suppose you "fly" falcon/bms at all?

[Unquenchable Angst]

When my Dad was Ford's chief pilot he was given a book celebrating 50 years of flight. The last few pages covered the prototypes of the B-52 and the C-130. At that time Ford had Convair 440's replacing DC-3's and Henry Ford II had an A-26( Now known as B-26 not to be confused with the B-26 Martin Maurauder) that was outfitted as an exec.plane.
In the 1960's Dad worked  for a company doing land development in Florida. The company had a PBY5 Catalina amphibian and a Grumman Goose.

[West of the Rockies]

Recognizing that nothing compares with the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum, do any of you have a decent airplane museum near you?  In Chico, CA there is a very small one that features maybe ten planes, none of which is all that impressive.  I hear they just acquired an F-14 Tomcat, but I haven't seen it yet.  You can go aboard one or two of the planes.  There is also a little indoor museum with local airplane lore.  If I'm not mistaken, Chico was the site of the first airplane hijacking on U.S. soil back in the very early 60's. 

Can anyone recommend an airplane museum worth taking a day-trip to in your area?

[Sardondi]

Recognizing that nothing compares with the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum, do any of you have a decent airplane museum near you?  In Chico, CA there is a very small one that features maybe ten planes, none of which is all that impressive.  I hear they just acquired an F-14 Tomcat, but I haven't seen it yet.  You can go aboard one or two of the planes.  There is also a little indoor museum with local airplane lore.  If I'm not mistaken, Chico was the site of the first airplane hijacking on U.S. soil back in the very early 60's. 

Can anyone recommend an airplane museum worth taking a day-trip to in your area?

The National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, FL is incredible. Probably has more actual aircraft than NA&SM, although most are outside.  http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/

[ItsOver]

The National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, FL is incredible. Probably has more actual aircraft than NA&SM, although most are outside.  http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/

+ 1 for the Naval Aviation Museum.  The beach is really nice in that part of Florida, as well.  I used to live not far from one of the best aviation museums in the world, the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.  If you ever get a chance, go.  One of my favorite planes is there, the B-70.

[b_dubb]

They're restoring a WWII bomber at Wright Patt and I've seen it flyin a couple times. It's the last of its kind and never goes far from home. Really something to see

[ItsOver]

They're restoring a WWII bomber at Wright Patt and I've seen it flyin a couple times. It's the last of its kind and never goes far from home. Really something to see

Do you know what type of bomber?  I can always tell when the airshow is coming to my area.  I hear the roar of a B-17 passing overhead several times during the day. 

[b_dubb]

I think it's the Memphis Belle - a B17

[ItsOver]

I think it's the Memphis Belle - a B17

Ah...great!  This is the B-17 I get the pleasure of seeing and hearing at times.