Happy Patriot Day

[The General]

I was never comfortable with the naming of 9-11 "Patriot Day." We didn't come up with a holiday for Pearl Harbor, it's just called Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day. How about "9-11 Remembrance Day" or "World Trade Center Remembrance Day?" That would make more sense. 3000 Americans killed by radical nutjobs doesn't make me feel particularly patriotic, it just pisses me off. How about "National Pissed Off Day?"

Why exactly am I supposed to feel Patriotic on 9-11?  It seems disingenuous to me.  I remember the horror, honor the dead, respect those that risked or gave their lives, and I wonder why we didn't do more to prevent it.  But Patriotic?  Not really.  And I'm probably more patriotic than anyone you know.

It reminds me of going to my hometown 4th of July parade this year.  Some clueless organization thought that this float would be a good idea....

[ziznak]

Christ... I can't stand the tacky sensationalization of 911.  So many talent-less and scruple-less people that needed a cause to hop onto have adopted 911 as their little baby only to come up with tasteless abominations like the float above.  My parent's won some doorprize or raffle prize at a function a few years back and it turned out to be the most horrific painting I've ever seen.  It depicted the burning buildings with Osama's demon-face in the smoke as well as a huge crying child in the foreground... I guess it was meant to illicit compasion and rage at the same time.  Didn't work though... My whole family laughs about it.  The painting has never been hung up and I've seen it tucked behind various pieces of furniture on it's way to the trash can.  I can't stand tacky 911 crap.

[Eddie Coyle]

             "Amazed it only happened once" day. I remember being convinced we were in for a new age, where malls and ballparks would be hit-all the soft targets-...and thankfully, that didn't occur. Actually, things were worse in the 70's/80's in terms of hijackings and attacks on Americans abroad. Maybe "security" is the answer for this trend and we're succeeding on our end, or maybe the radical Islamist threat isn't a great as we were lead to believe, and 9/11 was their masterwork. I don't know.

[HorrorRetro]

I'm pretty conservative and an Army wife of almost 18 years.  I, too, feel there's something wrong with this day being given that particular name.  It doesn't feel right to me.  There were extreme acts of heroism that day; I think we can all agree with that.  Does heroism equal patriotism?  Not really.  Lots of patriotic people wouldn't cross the street to help another person.  I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I do agree that naming 9/11 Patriot Day just doesn't feel right. 

What happens if we get hit again on the same or similar level?  Do we then name that day?  If so, what?  Patriot Day II?  It wasn't a wise decision to name this day.

[The General]

I'm pretty conservative and an Army wife of almost 18 years.  I, too, feel there's something wrong with this day being given that particular name.  It doesn't feel right to me.  There were extreme acts of heroism that day; I think we can all agree with that.  Does heroism equal patriotism?  Not really.  Lots of patriotic people wouldn't cross the street to help another person.  I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I do agree that naming 9/11 Patriot Day just doesn't feel right. 

What happens if we get hit again on the same or similar level?  Do we then name that day?  If so, what?  Patriot Day II?  It wasn't a wise decision to name this day.

Did it coincide with the Act of the same name?  Eddie will remember, did Patriot Day and the Patriot Act happen at once?  That would make more sense, in retrospect, if it was used to sell the Patriot Act to the sheeple.

[Eddie Coyle]

Did it coincide with the Act of the same name?  Eddie will remember, did Patriot Day and the Patriot Act happen at once?  That would make more sense, in retrospect, if it was used to sell the Patriot Act to the sheeple.

General, Patriot Day and Patriot Act came about on Oct 25 and 26, 2001, respectively. And I believe the former was unanimous. And precious little discourse as the war in Afghanistan was in it's third week.

[The General]

I thought so.

And of course it was unanimous. 
If you are against Patriot Day or the Patriot Act, you must be, by definition, unpatriotic.

[PB the Deplorable]

One of the things I'll never forget is the early footage - never to be showed again - from the Arab capitals.  Cairo, Gaza, Amman, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Riyadh.  People were stopping their vehicles in traffic - I mostly remember a lot of cabs - dancing, whooping it up, allah akbaring, screeching in delight.  People were handing out candy to kids like it was some party.

Now I've traveled the third world a bit, even a few Muslim enclaves within places like China, India, and Thailand.  The poor aren't riding in cabs, they are walking or on busses.  So these people were the middle class in these places.  I'm thinking if the middle class Arab Muslims hated us this much before 9/11, before we attacked Iraq and Afgahistan - enough to get out, stop traffic and celebrate, surely the poor there hate us just as much.  There are only a few rich in these places, so the poor and middle class is pretty much everyone.


Fast forward to today.  Mobs in Cairo, and also in Tripoli, Libya attacked our embassies. 

Carter projected weakness and gave us the ongoing Iran problem.  Look what Obama has done, or not done, thru inattention - Egypt was our friend, now its run by the Muslim Brotherhood, Libya was contained, now it's not.  Syria was isolated, it's currently being overrun by the jihadis, Yemen and the Gulf States are teetering.  Nothing good is going to come out of any of this.

[McPhallus]

We're also 200 years past the War of 1812 (forget the actual day), but no one remembers that shit.

[McPhallus]

One of the things I'll never forget is the early footage - never to be showed again - from the Arab capitals.  Cairo, Gaza, Amman, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Riyadh.  People were stopping their vehicles in traffic - I mostly remember a lot of cabs - dancing, whooping it up, allah akbaring, screeching in delight.  People were handing out candy to kids like it was some party.

I remember the footage of them hooting and hollering from the backs of their Ford trucks.

[Eddie Coyle]

I remember the footage of them hooting and hollering from the backs of their Ford trucks.

Well, at least they buy American.

[Morgus]

Cairo protesters scale U.S. Embassy wall, remove flag

Look at what the mobs in Cairo, Egypt did to the USA embassy there today of all days... 

I remember in the 90s, guest Dannion Brinkley told Art Bell that one of his visions of the future he received after his return from the dead years before was that Egypt would fall to the muslim fundamentalists.

[ziznak]

Cairo protesters scale U.S. Embassy wall, remove flag

Look at what the mobs in Cairo, Egypt did to the USA embassy there today of all days... 

I remember in the 90s, guest Dannion Brinkley told Art Bell that one of his visions of the future he received after his return from the dead years before was that Egypt would fall to the muslim fundamentalists.

Now we'll never know what's hiding under the sphinxters paw.  Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the pyramids get taken down since they are an abomination in the eyes of Allah Snackbar.

[Sardondi]

             "Amazed it only happened once" day. I remember being convinced we were in for a new age, where malls and ballparks would be hit-all the soft targets-...and thankfully, that didn't occur. Actually, things were worse in the 70's/80's in terms of hijackings and attacks on Americans abroad. Maybe "security" is the answer for this trend and we're succeeding on our end, or maybe the radical Islamist threat isn't a great as we were lead to believe, and 9/11 was their masterwork. I don't know.

I think you're right, but some wrong. First, we're far, far more successful with our security efforts than we citizens know. It's a truism that we never know about the intel successes, or at least not until many years later. This is so.

Some of the success is because of the massive, hugely expensive "sigint" programs which the NSA/CIA/FBI run. You remember the talk a few years ago about the FBI's "CARNIVORE" which was software which was going to scan every US wire communication for "cues" and alert a human to particular suspicious conversations. There was a lot of resistance to it. You may have thought it disappeared. Nope. It went into effect. There's even a successor program going on now. No one has ever confirmed it, but it's a safe bet that every telephone or wire communication in the US - and a lot around the world - are scanned by some program or other which the US controls or has access to, which alerts humans, for example, to every conversation with the word "bomb", "jihad", "martyrdom", "Allah, or something similar. Now, you say, "So what if it's marked. For what purpose? Besides, hasn't the conversation disappeared into the ether where no one can get it? Isn't it a wiretap otherwise?" Good questions with very technical answers. But fortunately for US security efforts, and unfortunately for US civil liberties, the program only works if every possible terrorism-related call can be recorded and saved for review. And they are. Scary.

But human intelligence is where the real money is spent, and the real results can be obtained. We know, in the cumulative, so much about so many groups and individuals, that there is no one, or two or three persons in US intelligence who can know all there is to know about viable, active, worldwide Islamic terrorist threats against the US. That's also scary.

But is all the uproar about the Islamic terrorist threat overblown? No way. Having worked some in this field up until I stepped down a few years ago, I was occasionally briefed just enough to give me an idea of what we face. I know a little about this stuff - just a very little - and it was enough to turn my bowels to water. We have been so incredibly lucky already, because major incidents, potentially bigger than 9/11, have been thwarted in the United States, less than 48 hours from success. One of these is known about: the Customs discovery at Port Angeles, approximately 2-weeks prior to the planned attack, of the "Millennial Bomb Plot" of Ahmed Ressam. That one was sheer luck. But we've gotten better with both our human and signal intelligence since then. There are other, bigger plots we've taken down which have not been declassified, and the few I know a little about scare the shit out of me.

But I'm most afraid of the suitcase nukes which just about every corrupt Russian general and KGB boss sold to Muslim terrorist groups. Forget making dirty nukes - which are also a threat - one or two suitcases could turn any mass public gathering into a huge propaganda coup for Muslim fanatics, to whom the "strong horse" is so important. (As with so many other displays of hypermasculinity, you have to wonder about the deep conflicts with sexuality that trouble so many Muslim fundamentalist males. For some insight, just look up "Afghanistan" and "Thursday Night" and ask yourself if that sounds like heterosexual males...or guys who are trying to figure out what they are.)

The suitcase nuke and the coming ubiquity of drones make me wonder how we're ever going to prevent a terrorist nuke attack of, say, a "Free Concert in Central Park" put on by Lady Gaga. That would seem like a Muslim terrorist's perfect idea of optimum convergence of place, target and weapon. And how to defend against even a very small drone-borne suitcase nuke, or even a balloon-borne little nuke? 

Something that we're doing is working. I hope we can keep it up.

[HorrorRetro]

For some insight, just look up "Afghanistan" and "Thursday Night" and ask yourself if that sounds like heterosexual males...or guys who are trying to figure out what they are.)

The infamous man-love Thursdays.  My husband is over there right now and has seen and heard some bizarre stuff, that's for sure.

[Eddie Coyle]

But is all the uproar about the Islamic terrorist threat overblown? No way. Having worked some in this field up until I stepped down a few years ago, I was occasionally briefed just enough to give me an idea of what we face. I know a little about this stuff - just a very little - and it was enough to turn my bowels to water. We have been so incredibly lucky already, because major incidents, potentially bigger than 9/11, have been thwarted in the United States, less than 48 hours from success. One of these is known about: the Customs discovery at Port Angeles, approximately 2-weeks prior to the planned attack, of the "Millennial Bomb Plot" of Ahmed Ressam. That one was sheer luck. But we've gotten better with both our human and signal intelligence since then. There are other, bigger plots we've taken down which have not been declassified, and the few I know a little about scare the shit out of me.

But I'm most afraid of the suitcase nukes which just about every corrupt Russian general and KGB boss sold to Muslim terrorist groups. Forget making dirty nukes - which are also a threat - one or two suitcases could turn any mass public gathering into a huge propaganda coup for Muslim fanatics, to whom the "strong horse" is so important. (As with so many other displays of hypermasculinity, you have to wonder about the deep conflicts with sexuality that trouble so many Muslim fundamentalist males. For some insight, just look up "Afghanistan" and "Thursday Night" and ask yourself if that sounds like heterosexual males...or guys who are trying to figure out what they are.)

The suitcase nuke and the coming ubiquity of drones make me wonder how we're ever going to prevent a terrorist nuke attack of, say, a "Free Concert in Central Park" put on by Lady Gaga. That would seem like a Muslim terrorist's perfect idea of optimum convergence of place, target and weapon. And how to defend against even a very small drone-borne suitcase nuke, or even a balloon-borne little nuke? 

Something that we're doing is working. I hope we can keep it up.

        From your lips to Allah's ears. Call me Farouk el-Coyle Kareem of Wheat if that's part of their plan. 

           I think the radical Islamist threat is very real, however their reluctance or failure to execute any type of significant action on our soil does make me wonder. I've been reading David Pipes and Steven Emerson's Cassandra doomsday predictions(amongst others) for well over two decades and believed them...but both of them have agendas that are redolent of the most Strangelovian Cold War doctrine.

           I think we benefit from luck...and more importantly, the endless internecine chasms that keep the Radical Islamists from being unified or centralized. The fractures amongst the terrorists have been there since the outset. One of the reasons for Munich, was the utter embarrassment amongst the PLO and PFLP, that the Japanese Red Army's three man assault team at Lod Airport in May of '72 did more damage and showed more fervor than than Arab terrorists had shown.

         Granted, Al Qaeda are far more "driven" than the PLO, but I think the dogma that comes with religious fundamentalism also keeps membership to a minimum. Al Qaeda is far more self-contained, there's not many outside alliances like the PLO had with IRA/Provos or Baader-Meinhof or ETA.

[PB the Deplorable]

... But I'm most afraid of the suitcase nukes which just about every corrupt Russian general and KGB boss sold to Muslim terrorist groups. Forget making dirty nukes - which are also a threat - one or two suitcases could turn any mass public gathering into a huge propaganda coup for Muslim fanatics, to whom the "strong horse" is so important....

My understanding is after a few years the plutonium in the suitcase nukes degrades to the point that they won't explode - they have to go back to the factory periodically to have the plutonium refined.  Knowing that, even if they could possibly explode, the terrorists couldn't rely on it and so wouldn't plan an operation around using it.

As far as the strong horse, I lke the idea of turning Mecca and maybe a few other targets into giant smoldering black holes in the ground.  End the wars in Iraq and Afganistan, bring the troops home, then issue a short warning of what consequences are next time we are attacked on any kind of large scale.  Given that we are pretty much hated all thru the region, these 7th Century rats should be worrying about what we think, not the other way around.  But that's just me.

[ziznak]

As for the suitcase nukes from Russia I keep getting an image of some slimy Russian pimpster trying to talk Al Hajibee Jamboree into buying his merchandise. 
"Itzz highezt Qualetee I zwear"
Meanwhile an x-ray view of suitcases contents reveals a can of redbull hooked up to a car battery. 
PB you have a very good point about them suitcase nukes.  All nukes actually be it missile or suitcase form need some sort of upkeep which I don't think would be provided by the Russian low-life salesmen.  If anything they are just a good source of radioactive substances... or red bull.

[Sardondi]

...Meanwhile an x-ray view of suitcases contents reveals a can of redbull hooked up to a car battery.....

Okay, that got a literal "guffaw out loud" from me...

[Sardondi]

The infamous man-love Thursdays.  My husband is over there right now and has seen and heard some bizarre stuff, that's for sure.

Isn't that simply beyond comprehension? But apparently so widespread that it's the cultural norm. Just consider: a pre-modern society in which an exaggerated masculinity is the norm for males, many of whom (most? all?) see no moral or intellectual incoherence in their practice of regularly devoting one night a week to buggering effeminate boys. Apparently in these guys' brand of Islam it's perfectly okay to sodomize boys precisely because they are male, and not those hideous subhuman creatures known as "women".

[b_dubb]

I predict as our culture becomes increasingly"patriotic" that the flag will soon be at a constant state of halfmast-ness. Then at some point someone will start manufacturing flag poles at half their current size to reduce cost and maximize profit. At this point everything will appear to be normal except flag poles and our personal freedoms will be greatly diminished.