Art Bell

[nika01]

I saw it on a documentary...I'll go and look for it...no problem..

Thanks, my boss will love it. He is Chinese, and there is no love lost between China and Japan.

[chefist]

Not that I doubt you, but do you have a reference for that? When I saw that film, and the film of the liberation it had a profound effect on me.  I want to see what Truman said, if it is available.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/hst/d.htm

The letters are amazing! Brings to light the nature of thinking in 1945. I think they made the only decision they could have back then...I travel to China on business often, and have many close Chinese friends...even given the cold war, they appreciate our efforts to defeat the Empire of Japan to this very day...that's why Mao met with Nixon...during the war we supplied both the Nationalists and Communists with weapons and supplies to fight the Japanese...

[jazmunda]

Hi Gabrielle,

Glued to the game, I am. Tonight we'll be broadcasting live at:

http://50.7.71.219:7453/live.m3u

Call-in number is 215 488-7374.

Go USA! Go girls!!

🌸Bella🌸

I think you need a catchier URL.

http://50.7.71.219:7453/live.m3u doesn't roll off the tongue.

[wr250]

Hi Gabrielle,

Glued to the game, I am. Tonight we'll be broadcasting live at:

http://50.7.71.219:7453/live.m3u

Call-in number is 215 488-7374.

Go USA! Go girls!!

🌸Bella🌸

nancy did you get my pm ?

[albrecht]

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/hst/d.htm

The letters are amazing! Brings to light the nature of thinking in 1945. I think they made the only decision they could have back then...I travel to China on business often, and have many close Chinese friends...even given the cold war, they appreciate our efforts to defeat the Empire of Japan to this very day...that's why Mao met with Nixon...during the war we supplied both the Nationalists and Communists with weapons and supplies to fight the Japanese...

My only problem with it is the setting of the precedent of use of nuclear weapons. Something around 70k killed outright (horrible of course, but we killed more in various firebombing campaigns of cities (in Japan and in Germany; and some of those were even more questionable militarily and targeted civilians also.) And the Axis killed far more in their nefarious campaigns, camps, and actions. So it was not the human cost (which is horrible) but the precedent of use and the power of the technology that still haunts the world (and caused most everyone to want nukes.)

[Heather Wade]

Tweeter noobie here.

What does this post mean on my account from PartitoPirataTicino?:

@Zenman141  So u NSA, CIA, DEA, DIA? ?

Pretty much all I have on my timeline is Blitz related stuff.

TIA

Somehow your twitter handle ended up on a tweet to me.  Dude was asking me what 3 letter agency I work for.

[chefist]

My only problem with it is the setting of the precedent of use of nuclear weapons. Something around 70k killed outright (horrible of course, but we killed more in various firebombing campaigns of cities (in Japan and in Germany; and some of those were even more questionable militarily and targeted civilians also.) And the Axis killed far more in their nefarious campaigns, camps, and actions. So it was not the human cost (which is horrible) but the precedent of use and the power of the technology that still haunts the world (and caused most everyone to want nukes.)

It was a democracy then, and it is now...the vast majority of the population was in favor of using the weapon...the estimate was 1,000,000 casualties to take the islands conventionally...hind sight is 20/20...we never used gas in WWI, even thought we could...everyone though the "bomb" was just that, a big bomb...the effects of radiation were not understood...

[paladin1991]

WWII OMG! I can only imagine what the Japanese execs thought an average American would say...."So Mr. Toyota, sure got hot there in Hiroshima, eh?"

"Yes, Mr. Chefist, velly hot.  About 1 million Kelvin at my grandfather's house." 

[nbirnes]

nancy did you get my pm ?

Yes, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. My nerves tell me it's better to try to get strong on the sound, and then the finer points of chat. I have an old nickname that seems to be tripping me up there.

The chatroom at ufoship.com has been a godsend. Instant feedback. Wonderful listeners. World-class.

[chefist]

"Yes, Mr. Chefist, velly hot.  About 1 million Kelvin at my grandfather's house."

"Guess you shouldn't have tried to have a weekend vacation in Hawaii then, Toyota San."

[albrecht]

It was a democracy then, and it is now...the vast majority of the population was in favor of using the weapon...the estimate was 1,000,000 casualties to take the islands conventionally...hind sight is 20/20...we never used gas in WWI, even thought we could...everyone though the "bomb" was just that, a big bomb...the effects of radiation were not understood...

I don't recall hearing there was a vote. And we have never been, here a democracy, at least as the term is usually understood but a representative republic. But I hear what you are saying. Second-guessing is always suspect but I buy the theory that it prevented more deaths (on both sides) but the negative is now everyone wants it.

ps: I think even the US used some "gas" in WWI, certainly the Germans, French, and Brits did on occasion (chlorine(phosgene,) mustard gas, maybe others?) Worse, the US did use Adamsite (which is not intended to be lethal but complications can be) against its own veterans (the Bonus Army riots.)

[nika01]

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/hst/d.htm

The letters are amazing! Brings to light the nature of thinking in 1945. I think they made the only decision they could have back then...I travel to China on business often, and have many close Chinese friends...even given the cold war, they appreciate our efforts to defeat the Empire of Japan to this very day...that's why Mao met with Nixon...during the war we supplied both the Nationalists and Communists with weapons and supplies to fight the Japanese...

Thanks for your trouble, I appreciate it!

[paladin1991]

My only problem with it is the setting of the precedent of use of nuclear weapons. Something around 70k killed outright (horrible of course, but we killed more in various firebombing campaigns of cities (in Japan and in Germany; and some of those were even more questionable militarily and targeted civilians also.) And the Axis killed far more in their nefarious campaigns, camps, and actions. So it was not the human cost (which is horrible) but the precedent of use and the power of the technology that still haunts the world (and caused most everyone to want nukes.)

Precedent.  Yeah.  I think what it tells the world is that we, the Americans, were going to take no more shit.  It, the war, had to end.  And we were the only ones who could do it.  I read somewhere in my military studies that a, mostly, US invasion of the Japanese home islands would have resulting in something like a million US casualties and that the war could have ground on another 2 years, possibly to 1950 before all the islands were considered pacified and all resistance neutralized.  Conjecture was that with the Japanese proclivity for self extermination, it may have proved out that the largest groups of Japanese would have been those held 'safely' in US concentration camps.
*shrug*
Sounds like the makings for a good alt history book.

I personally believe that it was an abject lesson to the world and especially, the nuclear family.  Other nations may have nukes, other nations may get nukes.  But when all the posturing and sabre rattling is done, everybody knows that America didn't blink.  It might go something like this:
https://youtu.be/SnXgVcrcyWM

[deadmeow]

It is not like, all or nothing.  "We can land invade Japan, or we can drop 2 atom bombs on major cities killing men, women, babies and children....hmmmm".


They could have demonstrated one in the ocean, or dropped one in a field somewhere.  There were no good guys in WW2, all sides committed horrible atrocities.  The only positive ones in world war 2, were those who rejected violence. 

[paladin1991]

It is not like, all or nothing.  "We can land invade Japan, or we can drop 2 atom bombs on major cities killing men, women, babies and children....hmmmm".


They could have demonstrated one in the ocean, or dropped one in a field somewhere.  There were no good guys in WW2, all sides committed horrible atrocities.  The only positive ones in world war 2, were those who rejected violence.

I think they went up in smoke. 

[NXOEED]

Yes, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. My nerves tell me it's better to try to get strong on the sound, and then the finer points of chat. I have an old nickname that seems to be tripping me up there.

The chatroom at ufoship.com has been a godsend. Instant feedback. Wonderful listeners. World-class.

I enjoyed your show very much last night, even though I only caught the last 20 minutes of it. I was in one of my moods and needed something to take my mind off of it. It was really comforting to hear you guys, especially in the middle of the night, when everybody's asleep and I'm up with my thoughts. Getting to talk directly to you in the chat channel was good too. When it was over, I was able to get to sleep, which is rare lately.

[nika01]

It is not like, all or nothing.  "We can land invade Japan, or we can drop 2 atom bombs on major cities killing men, women, babies and children....hmmmm".


They could have demonstrated one in the ocean, or dropped one in a field somewhere.  There were no good guys in WW2, all sides committed horrible atrocities.  The only positive ones in world war 2, were those who rejected violence.

I used to think like this, then I read the facts. Japan refused adamantly to surrender even after Hiroshima. That fact, coupled with the inhumane way Japan conducted itself, made the second one necessary. All sides did not commit horrible atrocities to the same degree. That is just bullshit. The goodd guys were the ones that gave their lives to prevent the earth being turned into a living hell by thee evils of Germany and Japan. Wake up

[Zenman]

Somehow your twitter handle ended up on a tweet to me.  Dude was asking me what 3 letter agency I work for.

Aha! Should've figured you might be involved in such twittorial intrigue.   

[SaucyRossy]

Here is the C.Crane bluetooth speaker that Art recommended in the past, it also supports a plug in SD card or USB flash drive plus has an internal FM radio receiver too, plus 8+ hour rechargeable battery life:
http://www.ccrane.com/Senta-Ally-Bluetooth-Stereo-Speaker-w-FM

If c crane comes back as a sponsor I'm gonna get one of these because of how funky the options on it are. I don't know many other Bluetooth wireless boomboxes that will play usb sticks.

[SaucyRossy]

I enjoyed your show very much last night, even though I only caught the last 20 minutes of it. I was in one of my moods and needed something to take my mind off of it. It was really comforting to hear you guys, especially in the middle of the night, when everybody's asleep and I'm up with my thoughts. Getting to talk directly to you in the chat channel was good too. When it was over, I was able to get to sleep, which is rare lately.

I know exactly what you mean. Having Nancy and the rest of the team chatting about really deep ancient teachings was a blessing for me last night. My mind was racing because I was thinking about how it was the first fourth without my dad and he always made them so much fun. So that show last night was a blessing.

[albrecht]

If c crane comes back as a sponsor I'm gonna get one of these because of how funky the options on it are. I don't know many other Bluetooth wireless boomboxes that will play usb sticks.

http://news.ccrane.com/2015/07/01/art-bell-what-the-heck-is-he-doing-he-is-going-back-on-air-july-20th-2015/
Not sure if CCrane is a sponsor but he is talking about Art's imminent return and seems excited about it (as we all are!)

[chefist]

Precedent.  Yeah.  I think what it tells the world is that we, the Americans, were going to take no more shit.  It, the war, had to end.  And we were the only ones who could do it.  I read somewhere in my military studies that a, mostly, US invasion of the Japanese home islands would have resulting in something like a million US casualties and that the war could have ground on another 2 years, possibly to 1950 before all the islands were considered pacified and all resistance neutralized.  Conjecture was that with the Japanese proclivity for self extermination, it may have proved out that the largest groups of Japanese would have been those held 'safely' in US concentration camps.
*shrug*
Sounds like the makings for a good alt history book.

I personally believe that it was an abject lesson to the world and especially, the nuclear family.  Other nations may have nukes, other nations may get nukes.  But when all the posturing and sabre rattling is done, everybody knows that America didn't blink.  It might go something like this:
https://youtu.be/SnXgVcrcyWM

BAAP! Perfect, Marine!

[RoseGirl]

um.....ahem.....you do realize that much of the world sees the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in a very different light, don't you?

just sayin

[SaucyRossy]

um.....ahem.....you do realize that much of the world sees the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in a very different light, don't you?

just sayin

Not only most of the world but most of the people in charge at the time came to regret having used the bomb.

[wr250]

Yes, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. My nerves tell me it's better to try to get strong on the sound, and then the finer points of chat. I have an old nickname that seems to be tripping me up there.

The chatroom at ufoship.com has been a godsend. Instant feedback. Wonderful listeners. World-class.

if you like i can set it all up. then transfer foundership to you when you get your nic regged on freenode.
the only downside to the ufoship chat is its hosted on a server in MV's office. it wont have the bandwidth or the resources of freenode.
otherwise i would ask MV to set you up with a channel to do what you wish in.

[Autistic Star Children]

If you're not a George Knapp lover and looking for something good tonight, Bryan Alvarez is live a 9 on DMDN. He's got open lines tonight, that hasn't happened in awhile. Would love to hear people from this site call in. He always talks the latest on Art. Hoping he talks Hoagland too

and my usual tag line that Bryan plugs Art all the time on his weekday podcasts which air online and on tune in/iheartradio, sports byline for terrestrial, and AFN, etc.

Cross Promote! spread the love. Call.

If Bryan takes a call and I hear "This    is     White Crow." then I know the cross promotion worked.

DMDN becoming a thing.

[wr250]

If you're not a George Knapp lover and looking for something good tonight, Bryan Alvarez is live a 9 on DMDN. He's got open lines tonight, that hasn't happened in awhile. Would love to hear people from this site call in. He always talks the latest on Art. Hoping he talks Hoagland too

and my usual tag line that Bryan plugs Art all the time on his weekday podcasts which air online and on tune in/iheartradio, sports byline for terrestrial, and AFN, etc.

Cross Promote! spread the love. Call.

If Bryan takes a call and I hear "This    is     White Crow." then I know the cross promotion worked.

DMDN becoming a thing.

well its super suck sunday on c2c today so this would be a excellent alternative.

[Zenman]

if you like i can set it all up. then transfer foundership to you when you get your nic regged on freenode.
the only downside to the ufoship chat is its hosted on a server in MV's office. it wont have the bandwidth or the resources of freenode.
otherwise i would ask MV to set you up with a channel to do what you wish in.

Cool beans, wr250. The chat really gives the interactive element which I think is an asset to the show, and is certainly a riot for the listeners/participants. Stimulates call-ins too, I believe. And it's funnier than a rubber crutch.

[Jocko Johnson]

Precedent.  Yeah.  I think what it tells the world is that we, the Americans, were going to take no more shit.  It, the war, had to end.  And we were the only ones who could do it.  I read somewhere in my military studies that a, mostly, US invasion of the Japanese home islands would have resulting in something like a million US casualties and that the war could have ground on another 2 years, possibly to 1950 before all the islands were considered pacified and all resistance neutralized.  Conjecture was that with the Japanese proclivity for self extermination, it may have proved out that the largest groups of Japanese would have been those held 'safely' in US concentration camps.
*shrug*
Sounds like the makings for a good alt history book.

I personally believe that it was an abject lesson to the world and especially, the nuclear family.  Other nations may have nukes, other nations may get nukes.  But when all the posturing and sabre rattling is done, everybody knows that America didn't blink.  It might go something like this:
https://youtu.be/SnXgVcrcyWM

Remember, the closer we got to the Japanese home islands the tougher resistance the Japanese put up. Also when we saw the people of the islands in Okinawa diving off cliffs with their babys because they were told of the horrible things the Americans were going to do to them, it helped make the decision for the US. The preductions said not only would we lose 1 million plus but the causality's among the civilian population of Japan, now thinking of what happened at Okinawa, would be just unacceptable for the world and many more than the US losses.. The US was afraid that the world, with the war grinding on, door to door, as bloody and terrible causality list grew over time, the world would call for an armistice. We needed unconditional surrender not a negotiated peace. After that hsppened in WWI,  Pershing told the President Wilson and European powers that the Germans needed to be defeated out right to understand the meaning of their defeat. Which was as we know one of the causes of the rise of the Nazis in WWII. Truman and the US military knew we needed to have a total and complete victory. Besides I 've read that other than the scientists and military working on the bomb, they didn't  realize the actual power. The test bombs were small and it just seemed to be a bigger, better bomb, a weapon to use to end too many years of a terrible deadly world war

[paladin1991]

um.....ahem.....you do realize that much of the world sees the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in a very different light, don't you?

just sayin

How does it matter in Real Politik?  We did it when it needed to be done.  Nobody else has since.  We are the single world superpower because we have shown the resolve to do what needs to be done.  Everybody else is a pretender or a minor player. 
That is the reality that is not politically correct in the Kumbaya of the political dance.  See it in a very different light?  *shrug*  They still flood across our borders for a bit of the American dream, no matter how harsh the glare of that different light.

Let us misquote Daniel 5:27, "We have weighed ourselves, we have measured ourselves, and we have not been found wanting."