Göbekli Tepe

[Centurion40]

Interesting about the craftsmanship deteriorating over time.  I wonder if there was a person who had a natural talent, and the best examples are his/her handiwork.  Then, after he/she died, the other artisans lacked the natural talent to be as masterful.  A genius, like a Michelangelo or Da Vinci is difficult to replicate… even by their students and offspring.  I could only imagine that the population base of GT was smaller, therefore further reducing the odds of having a deep pool of artistic talent.

Regarding the “burial” of the entire site- as it is a religious/ceremonial site, I can imagine (as has repeatedly happened in written history) that when a new religion takes precedence over an old religion, then new one might try to eradicate all evidence of the old, “evil” religion.  Since there were not churches to burn or bulldoze, and explosives were not abundant, the easiest thing to do would be to bury it all.

[Sardondi]

...Regarding the “burial” of the entire site- as it is a religious/ceremonial site, I can imagine (as has repeatedly happened in written history) that when a new religion takes precedence over an old religion, then new one might try to eradicate all evidence of the old, “evil” religion.  Since there were not churches to burn or bulldoze, and explosives were not abundant, the easiest thing to do would be to bury it all.

But it appears to me the site, which is simply massive, was buried in anticipation of future use/need. I don't know if anyone has doodled with the numbers, but knowing as little as I do my initial guess is that covering the site to the extent it was buried was a gargantuan undertaking for masses of workers over a period of many years. Maybe I'm wrong about the size of the problem, but it seems to me it's a job along the lines of a small pyramid. Of course covering Gobekli Tepe is "just" excavation and hauling as opposed to quarrying, finishing and transporting stone, and constructing a giant stone tomb. Still, it seems that if a new religion displaced that evidenced by GT, defacing and wrecking could be performed far, far easier. And has there ever been a religious revolution in which the preceding faith is not physically defaced/destroyed?

It just seems like such an imaginably huge amount of work to get rid of reminders of a defeated competing faith when there are much easier and more effective ways of doing so.

[Zircon]

C40, if the former religion was usurped by a newer one then I'd think the new faith would have destroyed the older faith's temples. I sent this message while Sardondi was submitting his so a duplicity in what we feel.

[Sardondi]

Heh. I see we were mere seconds apart in posting.

[Rasputin]

If I remember correctly, the sight is around 30 acres or so, so it would take alot of fill to cover the sight completly. As has been mentioned a page back, there is also a mountain top that has been buried as well.

Onr thing is almost certain, the culture that did this had to be organized, and likely had math, writing, and good language skills, not to mention advanced engineering and stone mason techniques.

[BobGrau]

Something I often wonder about on this subject - how many hot air balloons would it take to lift a pyramid block?

[ziznak]

whaaaaaaaaat??? I know those rock climbing guys that pull the boulders down in "falling rock" prone areas use balloon like bladders to split rocks apart but... if you're saying they could lift a pyramid block using balloons yer nutz man.  it takes way too many just to lift a human and where would they get helium anyway?

[BobGrau]

whaaaaaaaaat??? I know those rock climbing guys that pull the boulders down in "falling rock" prone areas use balloon like bladders to split rocks apart but... if you're saying they could lift a pyramid block using balloons yer nutz man.  it takes way too many just to lift a human and where would they get helium anyway?

I said 'hot air', not helium... but you're right, george noory wasn't around then.

I meant using the balloons to cancel out the weight of the blocks, rather than actually lifting them off the ground. No less silly than rolling them on logs up ramps.

[ziznak]

I think you'd have better luck with a torsion field generator.... Where's tricky dick at?? he can sell  ya one!

[Rasputin]

We can guess all day long how it was built, but its not going to help solve the most important mystery of who built it, and what happened to them.

The history books are going to have to be changed if the date on this site is correct.

[Zircon]

Yes Rasputin, who built it and what was their fate? Clearly an advanced culture for the times considering the layout, construction and glyphs. Why was it buried? This last question is very perplexing. The religion changed is offered by some. OK, you destroy the old gods and build a new temple. Perhaps if they dig further they'll find that this latest find was a replacement for something even older. In any event, this one was buried. We don't know if the people abandoned it or were killed off by others of died in the Great Flood. Based on its construction date, it followed the Ice Age's end and possible floods. How many other cultures have been dug up where the people buried their past and moved on? Can't think of one but I'm not an anthropologist either.

[ziznak]

That's a good point Zircon.  Who was it that stumbled on "Troy?" was it that Schliemann idiot that did all his digging with dynamite? (had to look his name up to spell it). Right so maybe instead of building on top of each City you just moved next door and built the same thing over again.  If this occurred over a number of years you could end up with something like Gobekli.  It would appear as structures smeared over a large area possibly growing or shrinking in size depending on the vitality of the inhabitants.  I guess history doesn't always have to appear along the usual vertical stratus... hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Optiflex]

I actually looked into this a lot recently. First thing that bothered me was their Carbon dating evidence and explanation. If I or a group of people went to cover up something made of rock moving massive amounts of dirt from a hill for instance. and somebody came back say 100 years later, and started carbon dating the debris found in the dirt, they might be on TV a week later declaring my site 50,000 years old! This is why you don't carbon date like this! You find artifacts and radio carbon date those. Why do I have a feeling that if they removed a carved structure and Carbon dated underneath it, they'd get a much later date? He specifically mentioned he's been radio carbon dating the dirt used to cover the site, not dirt on which it was built.

Another thing that bothers me is I'm all for taking care and moving relatively slow on a site.,. but this dig is moving at a snails pace, even for a dig. All the photos I've seen lately, were around in 2008! Why do I have a feeling they are moving this slow because eventually they will carbon date something that puts this in a more realistic age, and then interest would wane quite a bit? As in we want to publish books and do lectures before the Beanie Baby like craze about it fades?

The third thing is the giant leaps forward in speculation. They find a vulture head and suddenly hypothesize enough to write a whole book about how this represents A, B, C, D, E, F, G... and it could simply be a...vulture? They also go on and on about this being a meeting place and worship site for hunter gatherers? If that is indeed the case, I would assume down in the base dirt you'd be able to locate a burn/sacrifice hearth. He avoids this like the plague. One person actually asked him in an interview and he simply side stepped it.

I can only find information about this sparingly which in itself points toward the archaeology community possibly thinking this guy is another Zahi Hawass. I mean if anybody really believed it, it would seem the place would garner a heck of a lot more attention.

[Optiflex]

Another thing I want to point out is everybody making wild speculation about why it was buried. It's by far, not the first time a site was found to have been buried. In China all those Terra Cotta warriors? And everybody assumes they made them and buried them within a relatively short time, which is now being proven to not be the case. They were on display a long time before being buried. So long, some eroded and even show signs of repair.

So why bury them? Why did pirates bury their treasure? Why do people, even in America bury stuff?  They don't want outsiders finding it, stealing it! Is it that hard to figure out that maybe, just maybe a people were being invaded and covered up their sacred place to hide it from invaders? Got over run  and the place simply got forgotten? Happens all the time. People come across piles of coins and stuff. Buried in somebodies yard and forgotten for 50 years.

They might have buried it because of a disaster and they felt the God's were displeased. Or an invader, not wanting to waste tons of man hours, might have simply had the site buried, to further beat down the conquered people. That actually happened a lot in history, but they often burned the site. You can't burn stone. So you either use it for new purposes or bury it.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

I actually looked into this a lot recently. First thing that bothered me was their Carbon dating evidence and explanation. If I or a group of people went to cover up something made of rock moving massive amounts of dirt from a hill for instance. and somebody came back say 100 years later, and started carbon dating the debris found in the dirt, they might be on TV a week later declaring my site 50,000 years old! This is why you don't carbon date like this! You find artifacts and radio carbon date those. Why do I have a feeling that if they removed a carved structure and Carbon dated underneath it, they'd get a much later date? He specifically mentioned he's been radio carbon dating the dirt used to cover the site, not dirt on which it was built.

Another thing that bothers me is I'm all for taking care and moving relatively slow on a site.,. but this dig is moving at a snails pace, even for a dig. All the photos I've seen lately, were around in 2008! Why do I have a feeling they are moving this slow because eventually they will carbon date something that puts this in a more realistic age, and then interest would wane quite a bit? As in we want to publish books and do lectures before the Beanie Baby like craze about it fades?

The third thing is the giant leaps forward in speculation. They find a vulture head and suddenly hypothesize enough to write a whole book about how this represents A, B, C, D, E, F, G... and it could simply be a...vulture? They also go on and on about this being a meeting place and worship site for hunter gatherers? If that is indeed the case, I would assume down in the base dirt you'd be able to locate a burn/sacrifice hearth. He avoids this like the plague. One person actually asked him in an interview and he simply side stepped it.

I can only find information about this sparingly which in itself points toward the archaeology community possibly thinking this guy is another Zahi Hawass. I mean if anybody really believed it, it would seem the place would garner a heck of a lot more attention.

Another thing I want to point out is everybody making wild speculation about why it was buried. It's by far, not the first time a site was found to have been buried. In China all those Terra Cotta warriors? And everybody assumes they made them and buried them within a relatively short time, which is now being proven to not be the case. They were on display a long time before being buried. So long, some eroded and even show signs of repair.

So why bury them? Why did pirates bury their treasure? Why do people, even in America bury stuff?  They don't want outsiders finding it, stealing it! Is it that hard to figure out that maybe, just maybe a people were being invaded and covered up their sacred place to hide it from invaders? Got over run  and the place simply got forgotten? Happens all the time. People come across piles of coins and stuff. Buried in somebodies yard and forgotten for 50 years.

They might have buried it because of a disaster and they felt the God's were displeased. Or an invader, not wanting to waste tons of man hours, might have simply had the site buried, to further beat down the conquered people. That actually happened a lot in history, but they often burned the site. You can't burn stone. So you either use it for new purposes or bury it.

ya gets one of these for knowing that the glass is just too damn big.
 

[martinol]

Here's a BBC documentary about Göbekli Tepe

BBC Documentary : Part of 10000 BC Göbekli Tepe

[Rasputin]

Pretty cool, thanks for posting that

[BigDave]

Wasn't there a circle of holes in Miami that ancient Indians drilled there. I remember C2C paying a lot of attention to it around 10-12 years ago

[Juan]

Yes, The Miami Circle.  Hoagland went there to report and had a mysterious heart attack.