President Donald J. Trump

[PB the Deplorable]

Yeah, just like America over the centuries. Is Trump ordering some 'Donald can do no wrong' drugs put in the kool aid?

America is an exception.  People from all over come here for opportunity and to join our Constitutional Republic, with it's system of property rights and free exchange, and find their place here.  In other words, a shared ideology.  At least those are the people who should be given residence and citizenship.

But the point was Nationalism is neither ''Right'' or ''Left''.  Shreddi has been struggling with a definition for ''right wing'' and suggested Nationalism as a defining characteristic.  Now we know it isn't.  Perhaps you can help him out.

[Dr. MD MD]

Now there's a can of worms that needs opening. Mattis was one of them, in fact. People just don't realize how subversive and damaging Barack Obama was. They think Trump is the problem. No, the last 8 years is the problem.

Right but Alex Jones is crazy!  :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiJPhwBvviY

[SciFiAuthor]

Trump is a parody of himself, no need to dream anything up! He's well capable of looking like a demented wanker all by himself.

I rest my case. You've gotten yourself all caught up in a narrative.

[SciFiAuthor]

Right but Alex Jones is crazy!  :

He's not crazy, he's just a sensationalist workin' his viewership for bucks. In that sense, however, he's just as legitimate as Anderson Cooper or Wolf Blitzer or a staff reporter for the NYT. Take a story and put a slant to it, and voila pairs of eyes come and so does ad revenue.

[Yorkshire pud]

If Trump adds Morocco to the banned list, you know that involves MV's wife's country of birth don't you? I could bet with certainty that many members of this forum have partners and spouses with green cards but a foreign passport that in the future will be scared to go visit relatives because they're not sure they'll be let back in to the US.

[Yorkshire pud]

I rest my case. You've gotten yourself all caught up in a narrative.

Its okay him being a demented wanker, its just he shouldn't be let loose with the tv remote, let alone nuclear weapons.

[Jackstar]

Drumpf is a parody of himself, no need to dream anything up! He's well capable of looking like a demented wanker all by himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratatoskr

[Jackstar]

you know that involves MV's wife's country of birth don't you?

I don't know any such thing. I've never eaten with her.

[Happier Times are Coming]

This resistance to Trump is not surprising given the fact that more eligible voters who didn't vote greatly outnumbered the amount of votes each candidate received.

According to http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174 the final votes were:

65,844,610 Clinton
62,979,636 Trump
7,804,213 Others

But--roughly 90 million eligible voters didn't vote!

I imagine Clinton would have seen the same resistance had she won. It's hard to call this election a mandate from the people when the people didn't show up. Hopefully the dissatisfaction from across the spectrum will lead to greater voter participation and involvement in our election process.

if Trump and Clinton were the only choices
what would have been the outcome ?
if all voters were required to vote ?
anyway, I am glad an investigation is forthcoming into voter fraud, an answer is needed !
Pence'S state had a State Police investigation and found problems

[Jackstar]

voila pairs of eyes come and so does ad revenue.

[Jackstar]

Its okay him being a demented wanker, its just he shouldn't be let loose with the tv remote, let alone nuclear weapons.

At what point does your defamatory opinion, actually become libel? Asking for a friend who wishes he were an attorney.

[Happier Times are Coming]

If Trump adds Morocco to the banned list, you know that involves MV's wife's country of birth don't you? I could bet with certainty that many members of this forum have partners and spouses with green cards but a foreign passport that in the future will be scared to go visit relatives because they're not sure they'll be let back in to the US.

isn't Morocco where attorneys flee when in big trouble ?
no extradition
Niles Stanton

[Jackstar]

no extradition sanitation

FTFUS

[Dr. MD MD]

He's not crazy, he's just a sensationalist workin' his viewership for bucks. In that sense, however, he's just as legitimate as Anderson Cooper or Wolf Blitzer or a staff reporter for the NYT. Take a story and put a slant to it, and voila pairs of eyes come and so does ad revenue.

He produced that documentary in 2008, I think. You should have a look. No one else was talking about this back then. Back then most were wearing t-shirts with Obama's face on it and acting like he was the second coming. 

[PB the Deplorable]

... Being conservative is a perfectly respectable position, but it usually goes too far and turns into atavism. I doubt you ever really question what you believe, whereas I'm interested to hear an articulate position from the right, even though I rarely hear one...

Well, I did give you a short list for conservatism:

... those who want our country to be governed according to the Constitution.  To continue our system of free exchange and the right to the fruit of our labor.  To have a strong defense and control of our border.  To defend personal liberty and require personal responsibility.  Expanding opportunity for everyone?  Small government and low taxes.

This is all the opposite of ''left-wing'', but does that make it ''right-wing''?

[PB the Deplorable]

He's not crazy, he's just a sensationalist workin' his viewership for bucks. In that sense, however, he's just as legitimate as Anderson Cooper or Wolf Blitzer or a staff reporter for the NYT...

Or Barrock Obama

[SciFiAuthor]

He produced that documentary in 2008, I think. You should have a look. No one else was talking about this back then. Back then most were wearing t-shirts with Obama's face on it and acting like he was the second coming. 

In those days I was looking for pictures of Obama too. For my dart board. I knew what that bullshit artist was from day one. Unfortunately, I had to check McCain and Romney at the ballot box to combat it. Thankfully we had a real choice this time around.

[Juan]

Who would have thought that the 70-year war on nationalism would result not in a globalist utopia, but in tribalism? Evidence the hewillnotdivide.us cam.

[aldousburbank]

President Donald J Trump salts the fields of the flailing left. Verily, he lays waste unto the vexation of their preciousness. The burden of political correctness nor humility is not upon him. And I fucking love it!

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm guessing Bannon has been told that (among the complete chaos this ban has caused) the executive order he wrote up bans Iraqis? Its just that Trump has also said that he'll eradicate ISIS (A philosophy) and they use Iraq as a base too. And US troops and intel need Iraqi insiders and translaters to help them. With the promise they'll be protected.

If you were an Iraqi, why would you help? What incentive would you have for helping US troops now, even if you had for the last year or so?

[Yorkshire pud]

President Donald J Trump salts the fields of the flailing left. Verily, he lays waste unto the vexation of their preciousness. The burden of political correctness nor humility is not upon him. And I fucking love it!

Yeah, but you're stoned. No recommendation. 

[WOTR]

At what point does your defamatory opinion, actually become libel? Asking for a friend who wishes he were an attorney.

I have a very difficult time knowing the answer to that.  What?  With all of the posts about the illegal alien and his transvestite wife and baby eating pedophile pizza loving candidates over the years on this forum the answer to the libel line has become a little blurred.

[SciFiAuthor]

If you were an Iraqi, why would you help? What incentive would you have for helping US troops now, even if you had for the last year or so?

Money.

[SredniVashtar]

Let me give you a random list of Nationalists:

De Gaulle
Gandhi
George Washington
Castro
The Dalai Lama
Pol Pot
Hitler
Martin Luther King, Jr
Ho Chi Minh
Ben Franklin
Churchill
Bolivar
Hugo Chavez
The Palestinians
Franco
Mandela

Do you see an ideological pattern there?

You're not paying attention. I said that the right tends to believe in national myths that they organise themselves around from the ground up. The others you cite were fighting wars of independence of one kind or another, that's not the same thing. They are more ad hoc and tend to disintegrate once they've kicked out whoever was in their country.

Nationalism is neither good nor bad, it's how it's applied.  I believe people are best governed by those they have a shared history with.  A shared culture, language, etc.  What's wrong with that?

Because national identity is just an abstraction. You have no more reason to identify with one set of people than any other. And once you establish yourself as a part of one group it makes it easier to find another group to go after and attack.

[Jackstar]

complete chaos this ban has caused

[SciFiAuthor]

You have no more reason to identify with one set of people than any other.

I think what you mean to say is that in our modern world you're not supposed to make distinctions between peoples, even though cultures, religions and languages exist. It has no practical validity. The Western World and its ideals must defeat and relegate Islam to the dustbin of history. Our ideology is superior in every way, just as it was against Nazism, and we need to acknowledge that and live by it instead of making excuses for others who hold inferior ideologies.

[Yorkshire pud]

Money.

And certain death if you were discovered being an informer for the US.  This ban is splitting American families up. 

For the first time in history a US President might have a state visit to the UK revoked. Now you might not care, but Trump will, badly.

[Jackstar]

Yeah, but you're stoned. No recommendation. 

This is both exactly what I would expect to hear and exactly what I would expect to get from a Yorkshireman.

[Dr. MD MD]

And certain death if you were discovered being an informer for the US.  This ban is splitting American families up. 

For the first time in history a US President might have a state visit to the UK revoked. Now you might not care, but Trump will, badly.

Not bloody likely! Didn't you see how quick your gal jumped into Trump's lap? Now that you're out of the EU you're going to need a good friend that, you know, you have a "special" relationship with. 

[SredniVashtar]

I think what you mean to say is that in our modern world you're not supposed to make distinctions between peoples, even though cultures, religions and languages exist. It has no practical validity. The Western World and its ideals must defeat and relegate Islam to the dustbin of history. Our ideology is superior in every way, just as it was against Nazism, and we need to acknowledge that and live by it instead of making excuses for others who hold inferior ideologies.

You haven't told me how you plan to defeat Islam. You can defeat groups of Islamists (and that's an important distinction when talking about Islam) but you can't defeat an idea.