President Donald J. Trump

[Kidnostad3]

Ooooooo the nasty bogeyman! You say you worked in the UK briefly, so you'l be aware of the NHS. I'm taking a punt you might have worked there when the Conservatives were in power (though of course it might have been in Blair's tenure). Either way, do you recall ever seeing a hospital, pharmacy, GP's surgery or out patient clinic with a red flag emblazoned with a gold hammer and sickle flying outside any of them?

The imperfect NHS is not a political entity, sure that doesn't stop politicians from all sides using it as a football, but at the sharp end where the medics work, it isn't a 'socialist construct. Nope, its simply a place where patients can recieve health care, no matter how simple or complex, free at the point of need. And not dependent on who you work for, whether you're unemployed, have a pre existing condition, or if some insurance company wants to rip you off.

Toodle pip.

The attached article talks about the effects of militant equalitarianism and feminism.  The thing is, it's so insidious that you don't even know that your balls reside in a specimen jar somewhere in a Ministry of Health facility. 

Good to see back. 

Whoops, wrong article.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/08/britain-is-now-a-socialist-utopia/

[Yorkshire pud]

It's odd isn't it, these same Fake News outlets fully supported all eight years of Obama's blunders.  A person whose world view is wrong and whose foreign policy was a complete disaster - just look at the two dunces he chose as Secretary of State.

Again, when Trump does something as reckless and dangerous to the entire world as green lighting Iran's nuclear weapon and ICBM programs, let us know.  When he sets an entire region the size of the Middle East on fire through a blundering series of actions and inactions, do let us know.

Aww bless. The frightening thing is that Trump won't know he's set the world ablaze. Or why. He might tweet there aren't as many attending his rallies but that will be the sum of his interest.

[Yorkshire pud]

The attached article talks about the effects of militant equalitarianism and feminism.  The thing is, it's so insidious that you don't even know that your balls reside in a specimen jar somewhere in a Ministry of Health facility. 

Good to see back. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:

Eh? The NHS was formed in 1948 and nothing to do with feminism. Silly man

[PB the Deplorable]

Aww bless. The frightening thing is that Trump won't know he's set the world ablaze. Or why. He might tweet there aren't as many attending his rallies but that will be the sum of his interest.

Don't you find it odd that the same people who relentlessly attack Trump always gave Obama and Hilary Clinton full support on the very same issues, yet claim to be honest journalists?

Much of what they say about Trump is true to a certain extent, but I despise the hypocrisy.  It means we can't trust them on this or anything else.

[Yorkshire pud]

Don't you find it odd that the same people who relentlessly attack Trump always gave Obama and Hilary Clinton full support on the very same issues, yet claim to be honest journalists?

Much of what they say about Trump is true to a certain extent, but I despise the hypocrisy.  It means we can't trust them on this or anything else.

Really? Explain then how you know so much about the misdeeds that Clinton and Obama have allegedly committed? Read it in the tea leaves?

[PB the Deplorable]

Really? Explain then how you know so much about the misdeeds that Clinton and Obama have allegedly committed? Read it in the tea leaves?

You do realize the so-called ''main-stream media'' no longer has a monopoly on information, right?

[Kidnostad3]

Eh? The NHS was formed in 1948 and nothing to do with feminism. Silly man

I cited the wrong website initially.  Look again. 

How was the People's Mayday Rally?  Did you buy the T-shirt?

[Yorkshire pud]

You do realize the so-called ''main-stream media'' no longer has a monopoly on information, right?

But you accept the alternative as empirical fact, because......?

[Yorkshire pud]

I cited the wrong website initially.  Look again. 

How was the People's Mayday Rally?  Did you buy the T-shirt?

Didn't go, but DID star in a video. Erm, the Spectator is a Tory rag, formally edited by Boris Johnson.

[PB the Deplorable]

But you accept the alternative as empirical fact, because......?

I don't ''accept the alternative as empirical fact''.  After years of observation I know who is more trustworthy, who is less so, and who lies constantly.  I know how words and numbers are used to confuse and muddy issues. I have a good memory for how certain policies came about, who was responsible for them, what people said would be the result of certain actions and who was right or wrong about it. 

I chose to take quite a few economics courses during college, and since then I've paid attention to issues touching on that.  Due to my situation I know more about taxes than I'd like.  I've spent my career in the business world in several major industries.  My interests include history - including the founding of this country and the drafting of our Constitution - foreign affairs, and media.  Living here in the San Francisco Bay Area, I've had a front row seat to the ''Progressives'' and their tactics.  You know, the various topics I post on.

When it comes to any of this stuff, I have a pretty good idea what rings true and what doesn't.  After awhile, patterns emerge and it's the same people always lying, and the same people trying to be accurate and honest - although everyone gets things wrong from time to time.

Make sense?

[pyewacket]

There are no perfect health care systems. Always keep in mind when drawing comparisons, that Texas is almost three times the size of the UK. So far, I haven't seen similar reports from Texas hospitals.

If socialized medicine is strained in much smaller and less populated countries- how can we expect it to work in a much larger more populated country like the USA?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzDfMotT48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGulU83N6Gc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRPhltjPSFs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

I still think that the free market is a better fit for the USA.

https://surgerycenterok.com/about/

https://surgerycenterok.com/pricing/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-cut-your-health-care-bill-pay-cash-1455592277

[PB the Deplorable]

One problem with healthcare is no one wants to pay for it.  The Ds have told us we shouldn't have to, and apparently the Rs either agree or are afraid to disagree.

The reason healthcare insurance is an employee benefit in the first place is because during WWII there was a wage freeze in place and companies began to offer benefits, including healthcare coverage in lieu of higher pay.

This created a disconnect.  The people choosing and paying for healthcare insurance (the company), were different from those receiving the benefit (employees).  This obviously creates waste and drives up costs:  in a one-size fits all system some people have more coverage than they need, some less; different companies offer different coverage and subsidize the premiums at different percentages, and the employee can't take their coverage with tem to a new employer;  insurance companies often charge companies more than what an individual would pay;  insurance companies deny claims when the company is the customer, not the employee.  And so on.  All this drives up prices.

We have a hodge-podge of federal, state, and local agencies and programs.  Plus Medicare and the VA, etc for specific groups.  Red tape regulations, paperwork.  All driving up costs.

People should be buying their own healthcare insurance.  Taxes should be lower so people can afford it, maybe make premiums a tax credit up to a certain amount.  Veterans injured from war ought to be taken care of by the government.  People who paid into Medicare all their lives ought to get what they paid for.  Insurance companies should not be allowed to disallow valid claims or cancel policies when people get sick or injured.  The poor, as usual, would get their safety net handouts - from one source, preferably their state, perhaps with federal support.

That's it.  Let the market work.  This doesn't have to be any more complicated than auto insurance.

[PB the Deplorable]

What we can't do is continue running these huge deficits, ripping off families and businesses with these high tax rates, and importing more poor people that we then have to support.

[3OctaveFart]

Oooh. The invisible hand. How original, how enlightening.

[Yorkshire pud]

There are no perfect health care systems. Always keep in mind when drawing comparisons, that Texas is almost three times the size of the UK. So far, I haven't seen similar reports from Texas hospitals.

If socialized medicine is strained in much smaller and less populated countries- how can we expect it to work in a much larger more populated country like the USA?

As I've said many times on this forum, the NHS isn't perfect and the politicians using it as a stick to beat people and each other with isn't the fault of the NHS. Nor is the abuse it has heaped on it. But the original philosophy and the way it was funded is a sound one. Since its inception, you, me and many millions have benefitted from the medical breakthroughs it has been responsible for over the decades.

I know from personel experience how much I owe it for the care I and my parents especially recieved from it, all without the worry of if it was affordable.

Humans are fundamentally selfish, and if the status quo of thinking everything is good as long as 'I'm' okay is fine with everyone, fair enough.

But I will bet anything that, that point of view changes dramatically when 'my' circumstances change in a negative way through no fault of 'mine', and when what was once affordable and on demand is no longer on the menu, 'my' point of view changes. Playing 'god' because 'I' can afford health care and 'you' can't isn't civilised.

The NHS is far cheaper to run too than any US policy.

[PB the Deplorable]

Oooh. The invisible hand. How original, how enlightening.

As opposed to everything else, yes.

If you are confused about this, check with the Venezuelans.

[starrmtn001]

President Trump's Weekly Address -- 5/5/17.

https://youtu.be/59WmVu3rccg

[3OctaveFart]

Enlightenment constructs don't work when you have madmen at the levers of power, or Igors running around the U.S. House of Representatives acting on his own because he believes he knows something of free markets.

I asked earlier what the president's policy is on health care. Not Obama's, not Paul Ryan's, not little Ivanka's. His. What is it? I'll hang up and listen.

[Juan]

When did the Farmer's Insurance guy get elected to Congress?

[Billy Joe Mulgreavey]

I still think that the free market is a better fit for the USA.

Sure.  Me too, just as soon as the marketplace is truly free.  Free of governmental interventions and other types of finagling.   Crony capitalism is largely what we are contending with in our healthcare system.   The EpiPen is a perfect example.  Our healthcare system is full of this kind of shit.   

[PB the Deplorable]

As I've said many times on this forum, the NHS isn't perfect and the politicians using it as a stick to beat people and each other with isn't the fault of the NHS...

No it's not the fault of the people working there, the doctors and nurses, etc.  It's just what's going to happen when the politicians are involved - let alone running it - which is why we don't want that here.  I'm not sure if I believe your statistics about your system costing less than our current one does, but it isn't less costly or more efficient - for everyone - than a market driven system.

The majority of Americans do not want this, and it isn't even authorized under the Constitution.  If the British want it, it's ok will us.  Why isn't that enough for you?

[PB the Deplorable]

Sure.  Me too, just as soon as the marketplace is truly free.  Free of governmental interventions and other types of finagling.   Crony capitalism is largely what we are contending with in our healthcare system.   The EpiPen is a perfect example.  Our healthcare system is full of this kind of shit.

So let's fix that and address other issues.  What should have been done in the first place instead of upending the whole thing. 

The alternative is a 20% European style Value Added Tax to pay for a European style government run healthcare system. 

[21st Century Man]

So let's fix that.  The alternative is a 20% European style Value Added Tax to pay for a European style government run healthcare system.

It's easier to squeeze blood out of a turnip than it is to get rid of corruption in Washington.  I'm not optimistic.

[Yorkshire pud]

President Trump's Weekly Address -- 5/5/17.

"ME ME ME ME, I won the election, I solved the world's problems, ME, love ME, wall, Clinton, ME, fake news, ME"

[3OctaveFart]

I can't believe you fools still believe the wall is going to be built. Damn!

Beyond everything else, the mountain of bullshit, that you are still roped in by this is most dismaying.

He has a greater chance of achieving a natural erection than that thing going up.

[Billy Joe Mulgreavey]

So let's fix that.  The alternative is a 20% European style Value Added Tax to pay for a European style government run healthcare system.

OK, let's fix it.  Let's start with one of the most bureaucratic and dishonest agencies complicit in much of our healthcare troubles, the FDA.  I'll bring the gas, you the matches.   Seriously, how do you even begin to fix it? 

[Kidnostad3]

As I've said many times on this forum, the NHS isn't perfect and the politicians using it as a stick to beat people and each other with isn't the fault of the NHS. Nor is the abuse it has heaped on it. But the original philosophy and the way it was funded is a sound one. Since its inception, you, me and many millions have benefitted from the medical breakthroughs it has been responsible for over the decades.

I know from personel experience how much I owe it for the care I and my parents especially recieved from it, all without the worry of if it was affordable.

Humans are fundamentally selfish, and if the status quo of thinking everything is good as long as 'I'm' okay is fine with everyone, fair enough.

But I will bet anything that, that point of view changes dramatically when 'my' circumstances change in a negative way through no fault of 'mine', and when what was once affordable and on demand is no longer on the menu, 'my' point of view changes. Playing 'god' because 'I' can afford health care and 'you' can't isn't civilised.

The NHS is far cheaper to run too than any US policy.

As I posted a few months ago and has been brought up again in the last 24 hours on this thread, the arguments over the pros and cons of a market based versus a single payer health care system are academic at this point.  Nothing short of full blown socialized medicine will satisfy those who are advocates of Obama Care and who see the ACA as getting the nose of the camel under the tent flap.  They of course care little about controlling debt or fostering free enterprise and the independence and self reliance of citizens and want to , step by step, create another Socialists Paradise.  Already they have sold the idea that healthcare is a civil right to half the population.  What's next, dental care, child care and gender reassignment.  Expect constant agitation from the free ride crowd and the politicians who depend on their votes to keep them in office.  Hell, most of them don't pay taxes anyway so they of course are all for anything they don't have to pay for. 

The left sees the republican's efforts to return healthcare to the private sector as an impediment to reaching their ultimate goal of establishing a nanny state.  Last evening I heard Charles Krauthammer who is an MD and an opponent of the ACA predict that within 6-8 years we would have
Socialized Medicine in the U.S.  There's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube and our healthcare will inevitably be put in the hands of bureaucrats.  We all know how well they manage things.

[Yorkshire pud]

No it's not the fault of the people working there, the doctors and nurses, etc.  It's just what's going to happen when the politicians are involved - let alone running it - which is why we don't want that here.  I'm not sure if I believe your statistics about your system costing less than our current one does, but it isn't less costly or more efficient - for everyone - than a market driven system.

The majority of Americans do not want this, and it isn't even authorized under the Constitution.  If the British want it, it's ok will us.  Why isn't that enough for you?

Hey, I didn't say the US would want it. I accept that most US citizens don't give a fuck about anyone else as long as they're alright. And that's fine, so long as those in the 'I'm fine ' camp don't gripe when their world goes tits up and what they once took for granted is a distant unaffordable memory.

[PB the Deplorable]

It's easier to squeeze blood out of a turnip than it is to get rid of corruption in Washington.  I'm not optimistic.

I'm not optimistic either, but a government run national health service is not acceptable, for the reasons listed.

[Billy Joe Mulgreavey]

I'm not optimistic either, but a government run national health service is not acceptable, for the reasons listed.

I think this is where we are headed, after a couple handfuls of people milk the living shit of the current crooked system, make record profits off the very lives of fellow countrymen.  Then when it finally collapses, you'll get your national system.  yay.

The only upshot to this I see is the fact that Falkie will have to wait longer in the ER.