Guns

[Yorkshire pud]

I bet this will make a few of my special forum friends piss their panties...

Meaning me? Oh puurleese. I did 100 yrd five round grouping aged 15 with .303 Le Enfields. No scope, and weigh a bloody sight more than the plastic weapon you're using.

[wr250]

Just one, of my babies...


A Mark 12 SPR clone I built after reading Lone Survivor - This was when the rifle was just built, I have since duracoated the barrel a nice, matte black, and added a folding front sight.

And, the best group I ever shot in my life (with same rifle)

Sucks I pulled the last shot and ruined the group.

I bet this will make a few of my special forum friends piss their panties...

I built it special for hunting quacks when the SHTF.

no. my deceased wife did that (without pulling a shot) consistently at 300 yards. but she was the sniper on the swat team as well. her range training resulted in a 99% kill rate out to 500 yards,mostly head shots.she preferred head shots, as the target dies instantly with no suffering.

[DanTSX]

He used what he had to hand I imagine. But that he went up close and personal because he wanted them to see him, he wanted his victims to be sure who their executioner was. He couldn't do that outside a school and just wait for them to exit using a scoped rifle. It's made sicker by the cases who make videos suggesting the whole thing was a hoax. (No I'm not suggesting anyone here is suggesting that).

He told his mom what he wanted
She bought it, and let him keep it in his room
He was hooded the entire time he was in the school.  The children never saw the face of their killer

The hoax people are sad, but immaterial to the gun debate

[DanTSX]

Nice stick quick Karl

[Quick Karl]

Nice stick quick Karl

Thank you, sir.

[Quick Karl]

no. my deceased wife did that (without pulling a shot) consistently at 300 yards. but she was the sniper on the swat team as well. her range training resulted in a 99% kill rate out to 500 yards,mostly head shots.she preferred head shots, as the target dies instantly with no suffering.

No disrespect to your dead wife but, bullshit.

[DanTSX]

What is funny is that I'm listening to a mid 90s coast to coast, and Art is adamant that the 2A is in danger and worth dying over to keep your guns.


Sounds more extreme than wells at the moment.

Kind of refreshing.  But also reminds what we lost after Waco and ruby ridge and the first expired assault weapons ban.

[wr250]

No disrespect to your dead wife but, bullshit.

think what you want. it is true
army says you have to hit 90% at 600 meters (~600 yards for those who cant understand metric)  to be a sniper.
i said she could do .25" groups at 300 yards. rifle is a sniper rifle (i forget the model, but it was "military grade" according to the sheriffs dept that issued it and very expensive) , caliber is 30-06.

personally i have trouble doing 1" groups at 50 yards, but then again thats why i own a shotgun, so that doesnt matter to much

[NowhereInTime]

I hope you are joking with that last paragraph.

It would be very revealing of your own projections if you are not joking.

We desire semiautomatic rifles because we are sexually frustrated ?  Do I have that right?  That's freshman level psychology class.  C'mon man.

Sopomore year, actually, and as I stated, I am untrained.  However, it seems to scream for analysis when time and again these shooters (Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora, SH) are single young men with no clear history of romantic/intimate involvements.  Further, if you were honest with youself, you would confess to yourself that the repeated misogynist statements you and QK have made ("write like you are on the rag" was a personal favorite) also scream toward a definitive negative attitude toward women. 
To be fair, I wasn't establishing an equivalency between any other shooter and Lanza, that was entirely your interpretation.
Finally, "Nice stick, Quick Karl" isn't phraseology I would ever be comfortable using with another man.  Perhaps a fault of mine...

[DanTSX]

Sopomore year, actually, and as I stated, I am untrained.  However, it seems to scream for analysis when time and again these shooters (Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora, SH) are single young men with no clear history of romantic/intimate involvements.  Further, if you were honest with youself, you would confess to yourself that the repeated misogynist statements you and QK have made ("write like you are on the rag" was a personal favorite) also scream toward a definitive negative attitude toward women. 
To be fair, I wasn't establishing an equivalency between any other shooter and Lanza, that was entirely your interpretation.
Finally, "Nice stick, Quick Karl" isn't phraseology I would ever be comfortable using with another man.  Perhaps a fault of mine...

Petty Misogyny does not mean I have sexual dissatisfaction or hang ups.

If you are diagnosing cho, Lanza, etc as having penis image issues, the I suggest you stop your analysis there.  You obviously have this all figured out.

[Quick Karl]

think what you want. it is true
army says you have to hit 90% at 600 meters (~600 yards for those who cant understand metric)  to be a sniper.
i said she could do .25" groups at 300 yards. rifle is a sniper rifle (i forget the model, but it was "military grade" according to the sheriffs dept that issued it and very expensive) , caliber is 30-06.

personally i have trouble doing 1" groups at 50 yards, but then again thats why i own a shotgun, so that doesnt matter to much

Sir, I absolutely respect your wife and her service, but I assure you, your numbers are wrong. To shoot a 1/4-MOA group at 300-meters requires a rifle that can shoot in the neighborhood of 3/32-MOA groups at 100-meters (that would be like an .093" group at 100-meters - that's better than world class bench rest accuracy), and the shooter would have to be capable of matching the rifle's potential accuracy. This doesn't even start to account for the effect of the wind on a projectile at 300-meters...

I been doing this a loooong time. Certainly don't know all there is to know, but I know what I know.

[wr250]

then perhaps she lied or misrepresented what she said to me.  but i have seen her targets with the .25" grouping,  but i wasnt there to witness it (she brought one home once). i have only to go by what she said. her 99 out of 100 shots were kills was accurate according to the officer in charge of the range at the time.

[DanTSX]

Meaning me? Oh puurleese. I did 100 yrd five round grouping aged 15 with .303 Le Enfields. No scope, and weigh a bloody sight more than the plastic weapon you're using.

I like SMLE's

The British made the best bolt action fighting rifles.  Hands down.

Fast.  Smooth.  Reliable.   Great capacity.
Great sights.

[onan]

I still carry my loaded Sig Sauer SP2022 9mm semi-auto pistol, on my person, everywhere I go.

I like that pistol. I have one as well. I find myself shooting it more than my p226.

[NowhereInTime]

Petty Misogyny does not mean I have sexual dissatisfaction or hang ups.

If you are diagnosing cho, Lanza, etc as having penis image issues, the I suggest you stop your analysis there.  You obviously have this all figured out.

I take you at your word, and, no I haven't figured a blessed thing out.  I don't think the shooters have "penis issues"; I belive they have empowerment issues upon which limited/non-existant intimate contact plays a factor.
I do not understand the fascination with these weapons.  What is the visceral catharsis derived from firing a gun?  I would say the same about driving a vehicle at excessive speeds (RIP Paul Walker - I'm glad the coroner says you never felt the burn. God how horrible.) or using chemicals to alter your mindstate (remembering I'm a liquor store manager).
Please do not feel a need to answer, but would your life in fact be incomplete if you couldn't possess a given firearm or use a particular ammunition in your weapon?

[SciFiAuthor]

Whether an AR-15, with it's mass killing capabilities, or a .50 caliber rifle, which could explode an engine block from a mile away, what is the need for this level of force in civilian society?

I am sorry, but I do get emotional over "things like Adam Lanza" because of the fact that I lived in SH for 4 years, my brother still lives there, and when you come across family of lost littles one live and in person in town in chokes you to the core.  Nancy was an acquaintance of my brother; he had nothing but good things to say about her but I feel she was derelict in letting Adam develop his passion for firearms.

I do not agree with your conclusion that he would have developed a "pipe bomb" or driven his car into a crowd; there's no evidence to support that behavior.  He was gun obsessed, mass murder obsessed, and war-video game obsessed.

Frankly, I would be curious to see a clinical diagnosis that, I would wager, would speak to ultimate sexual frustration as a cause for anger.  I am untrained, but it would seem spot on to me that the rifle and its ability to potently spray would be fitting surrogates for the sexual contact Adam in fact lacked.

I can certainly think of uses of semi-automatic weapons and rounds so big they can crack an engine block. Visit rural Alaska and catch a glimpse of a Kodiak and that'll certainly do it. But even simple enjoyment of owning one is fine with me. As I said, I see deaths as a whole rather than a matter of specifics, so when I see society promoting the legalization and use of a carcinogenic substance like pot and at the same time wanting to restrict a type of impractically massive and expensive gun that might kill 5 people over the next century, I start to wonder if our perspective might be so fucked that we are no longer able, as a culture, to judge what level of force is needed in society. To me, it's just better to let it ride and chalk it up to a fact of life like we do automobile deaths.

I've seen so many horrors and atrocities in life that I don't get emotional over it. Instead I ask how you fix it. In the case of school shootings, you aren't going to fix it with a bunch of laws that everyone will simply ignore like was done with Clinton's assault rifle ban. The shit didn't work, it's as simple as that. What you do is find out why Adam Lanza felt the need to shoot up a school and get to the core cause of it. We all know what it was; a constant exposure to violent imagery against a psyche that couldn't handle it, much like a PTSD afflicted person snaps and thinks he's back in Vietnam.

Oh I think he would have found a way to kill no matter what because, well, he wanted to kill people. The biggest and most deadliest attack on a school in the US to date remains due to a bomb. As Palestine shows, it's not all that hard to wire yourself up, so as soon as the video game subculture shifts from shoot 'em up to blow 'em up, you'll see a shift in the methods used by the whackadoos. As was mentioned, a pump shotgun is far more bloody and efficient than a semi-automatic rifle, it's only a matter of time before a nut figures that out, likely because some movie or game tips him off. When that happens watch the reaction; you won't see one against shotguns. Why? Because they don't look scary despite being among the most devastating guns on the market.

I don't know about the clinical diagnosis. I would image that would be more along the lines of schizophrenia or something like that. A huge chunk of gun violence remains spouse on spouse, so sexual frustration doesn't seem to be a factor there. Now, had he been raping at gun point, I would be inclined to blame that, but it doesn't seem that he was as far as I am aware. I tend to view psychosexual frustration as a bit overblown. It just seems to me that 4 minutes with some porn or a whore would fix that. They guy that shot up the movie theater was apparently a big fan of whores, yet he felt the need to act out a movie knowing that once he went to jail he wasn't going to be getting any. So I would be skeptical until some sexual motive were indicated more strongly.

[Quick Karl]

Petty Misogyny does not mean I have sexual dissatisfaction or hang ups.

If you are diagnosing cho, Lanza, etc as having penis image issues, the I suggest you stop your analysis there.  You obviously have this all figured out.

I wonder where the conversation is about the lack of a masculine male figure in the home and the forced-feminization of males in our system of dis-education? Watch any TV show today and all the males are a bunch of fagity acting ball-less douche bags that would make me puke if I had to sit in the same room with them.

These kids are lashing out at being forced to be faggity and "not fight back".

[DanTSX]

I take you at your word, and, no I haven't figured a blessed thing out.  I don't think the shooters have "penis issues"; I belive they have empowerment issues upon which limited/non-existant intimate contact plays a factor.
I do not understand the fascination with these weapons.  What is the visceral catharsis derived from firing a gun?  I would say the same about driving a vehicle at excessive speeds (RIP Paul Walker - I'm glad the coroner says you never felt the burn. God how horrible.) or using chemicals to alter your mindstate (remembering I'm a liquor store manager).
Please do not feel a need to answer, but would your life in fact be incomplete if you couldn't possess a given firearm or use a particular ammunition in your weapon?

No more than a hammer to hit a nail.

Gun are tools.  While you are probably right about some people.  I don't think the visceral catharsis that you describe, or any other connection applies to most people.  My most used firearms are the most uncomfortable to hold and fire.  There is no connection except for the satisfaction of training to achieve the correct response with a minimum of movement and time.  Some of my firearms are older and made from a time when there was much more craftsmanship and pride, and it shows in their fit an finish.  But no more than any other precisely fitted item from that era.  On these older firearms, the actions feel much more natural and designed for the human form, but that really is a mechanical study than the personification that you keep hoping to see described.

Sorry I wasn't supposed to answer that.

[DanTSX]

While we are showing off our visceral wiener substitutes, I might as well ask NowhereInTime what he concludes my masculine / wiener issues he can derive from the two favored guns of mine that I had just taken in from this past weekend's range trip.

What does my desire for shorter and quieter firearms say about my visceral catharsis?  Don't limit yourself to Freud. 

[Quick Karl]

While we are showing off our visceral wiener substitutes, I might as well ask NowhereInTime what he concludes my masculine / wiener issues he can derive from the two favored guns of mine that I had just taken in from this past weekend's range trip.

What does my desire for shorter and quieter firearms say about my visceral catharsis?  Don't limit yourself to Freud. 

Nice stuff! I'd say you have a case of good old American go-fuck-yourself-syndrome! 

As American as Apple Pie!

[NowhereInTime]

While we are showing off our visceral wiener substitutes, I might as well ask NowhereInTime what he concludes my masculine / wiener issues he can derive from the two favored guns of mine that I had just taken in from this past weekend's range trip.

What does my desire for shorter and quieter firearms say about my visceral catharsis?  Don't limit yourself to Freud. 

succinctly,  you crave potency and control. You seek to impress with sleek, supple designs. You can be as loud or as quiet as you wish to be, demonstrating your mastery of the moment. Ultimately,  you derive satisfaction from what you see as total control of your destiny.

[Unquenchable Angst]

I gave myself a Mossberg 500 for Christmas. Local hardware had them on sale and the price was nearly $100 off what I got quotes online for it.
I would like to get other barrels for it in time ,when and if they become available again. Perhaps a longer magazine tube also. Came w/ 18.5" barrel, heat shield, stock and  pistol grip. Just ordered a molle back scabbard. I would like to get a ghost ring site and perhaps a ret dot site for it. They even have a .50 cal. muzzle loader barrel conversion for it.
On my limited budget this seems to meet my needs and possibilities.

[Quick Karl]

I gave myself a Mossberg 500 for Christmas. Local hardware had them on sale and the price was nearly $100 off what I got quotes online for it.
I would like to get other barrels for it in time ,when and if they become available again. Perhaps a longer magazine tube also. Came w/ 18.5" barrel, heat shield, stock and  pistol grip. Just ordered a molle back scabbard. I would like to get a ghost ring site and perhaps a ret dot site for it. They even have a .50 cal. muzzle loader barrel conversion for it.
On my limited budget this seems to meet my needs and possibilities.

Sounds very nice, sir! May you have much enjoyment!  May I ask what neck-o-the-woods do you reside?

[Quick Karl]

My real, true love, is Mauser bolt-actions rifes, and 1911 45 ACP pistols. It astounds me that they were designed over 100-years ago, on machinery that is nearly primitive by today's standards, with pencil & paper, yet hey are as relevant today as they were when they were created.

I am currently building an M98 Mauser that I bought from an 85-year old gunsmith that started building it in the 60's, and never finished it. An obscure Fred Barnes wildcat caliber: ".404 EXP F.N.Barnes", that will propel a 400g bullet at 2425 foot seconds and produces 5000-ft lbs of energy at the muzzle - will kill any of the Big 5, provided the trigger man doesn't wet his pants...

I am not a hunter, I am just totally fascinated by the creativity and craftsmanship.

Let's see who here knows what they are lookin' at  Here is my .404 being let in to the stock blank - it will be a while before I am bustin' caps with it (if you click the picture you should be able to see a larger version of it):

[Yorkshire pud]

I wonder where the conversation is about the lack of a masculine male figure in the home and the forced-feminization of males in our system of dis-education? Watch any TV show today and all the males are a bunch of fagity acting ball-less douche bags that would make me puke if I had to sit in the same room with them.

These kids are lashing out at being forced to be faggity and "not fight back".

I'm guessing, but your favourite ever scene is the volleyball game in Top Gun.

You really do have self image problems Karl. 'Faggity and not fight back'? Presumably you have this delusion that homosexuals are weak and incapable of defending themselves and all rough tough macho men (with their gun of course) are uber male?

You can't make it up.

[SciFiAuthor]

True; and that will be the case anywhere in the world. I can take you to cities in the UK where weapons can reputedly be bought and sold easily, although a friend of mine who is quite up on these things (no he isn't a criminal!), said it isn't as easy as some think it is. Of course it's supply and demand and if you have 89 guns for 100, it's hard not to be able to get one.




Oh I agree. I think unless you have the hot heads who the NRA have in their back pocket and the paranoids not being because they believe there's an imminent government plot to put everyone in FEMA camps out of the equation, you're on a hiding to nothing. But people don't live for ever. Whenever anything changes and evolves, there's a starting point. There was a time that we didn't need driving licences. There are still some in the UK who are driving who started out not needing one. My Grandfather drove and didn't have a licence in WW1 when he manned the ambulances, they took him off the front line to drive, as so few could.

But one day it was decided that certain criteria was needed to drive...Starting point.

We had a regs in the UK before the massacre at Dunblane in 96; post Dunblane we had more introduced. In my view they didn't go far enough, but it's what it was. There was an amnesty of firearms. ALL firearms, old flintlocks, sawn off shotguns, rifles brought back as souvenirs from wars etc, hand guns, anything that went bang. Handguns were made illegal to own. Replica firearms are illegal. Anyone caught in a bank robbery with anything that resembles a firearm will likely be having red laser dots trained on them by armed response teams.

So confront it. It's my understanding that anyone can stand for President. Same as in the UK. You just need to get elected. Go on the ticket that confronts it.

Indeed; and as a demograph the same can be said about the few incidences of gun violence in the UK. We have few though. I think 50 or so were killed by firearms in the UK in 2012, a lot of those were suicides with legitimately owned shotguns (Farmers mainly). Massacres hit the headlines because it's newsworthy, a black kid shooting another isn't seen as important, so therefore not newsworthy.

Perhaps that is what happens there; but paradoxically I don't think it would here. It depends on the context. I'm not saying he wouldn't have it confiscated, or he'd have deep and searching questions asked, but I think the prosecution service wouldn't see it in the public interest to have it go to trial and pursue incarceration. Maybe a fine and probation. Of course, if he was unlicensed, the gun on show, loaded, and brandished when the door was opened, it would be a completely different kettle of haddock.

So get it mainstream; get elected. People by and large (not the opposite ends of the spectrum, they just believe what it is they want) are in the middle and accept that things can be fixed and often need to be.


So why is that? (I'm genuinely interested). You know, I mentioned it in another topic and got off topic! I don't like war films as such, I'm not obsessed with war; I think it's disgusting and cruel. What does fascinate me are the people who were called into it from all sides. The Soviets lost more than all the other countries combined. They were fanatical in keeping Germany from rolling over them. Most Germans were not Nazis. Most Americans didn't come over to screw British women; They lost 250000* soldiers in the D Day landings.. Two hundred and fifty thousand! I can't even imagine that loss. Most were well under 30 (How that hasn't changed eh?) who hadn't been further than the county line, and yet were conscripted into a war a continent away. The AAF lost thousands of aircraft and crew. The same went for sailors.

Some on here think I hate the USA; nothing could be further from the truth. I have deep respect for the sacrifices they have made at the whim of their (and our) political leaders. I've been to the USA, I have friends over there. The hospitality I was shown was at times too much, not in a bad way, but I'm quite reserved so it was a bit of a culture shock..But then I've been to Kenya several times and was greeted by a local who I hadn't seen in 12 months as if he'd seen me yesterday.

Why is the USA broken? It didn't used to be.

No doubt someone will put all the blame on the Democrats.

* That figure may be greater than it was by a factor of X2. But even if it is, 125000 is still horrendous.

Sorry it took a bit to get back to this.

Well, the FEMA camps thing would require extraordinary proof for me to get crazy about and I'm not speaking in favor of that subculture. But naturally people that REALLY want guns will break the law to get them. And the people that will commit an atrocity REALLY want guns. It seems to me that all we really do by creating a bunch of new laws is create a bunch of new pains for people that would have never been a problem in the first place. I don't see the sense in it.

Confronting it . . . no, I must pass. I am not a politician. If I tried I would go in with ideas and get my ass kicked by rhetoric. We live in a world where you need the media on your side to win or you need to be able to offer something for nothing. I wouldn't be able to do either. But I do understand your thinking, and I wish we had a decent crop of statesman these days.

In regards to Grandpa's shotgun, the odd thing is that the US is reluctant to make a law like gun control, but when we do it will come with a penalty so disproportionately great that it is guaranteed to ruin your life. Actually, the lawyer fees will still ruin your life even if you win the case. I think you're right in that the UK didn't take that approach as evidence by ending the death penalty, which we still have not done. We have a problem with disproportionately huge penalties.

I'm likewise very pro-UK, but will criticize as necessary and don't mind criticism the other way. I'd also prefer we not go frivolously to war over anything. But I don't lose sight of the fact that we had quite a good relationship going in the 20th century and Hitler had to go, and I'd have preferred the US enter the war earlier than it did. But I think Churchill summed that up, and I'm paraphrasing, the US will do the right thing after all other options are exhausted.

Why the US is screwed up. Well, it's because the half of us that are political politicize everything, and the half that isn't political just wants a hand out. It's all division now. Further, we have a media that joins in and must be political, and we have a dumbed down pop culture that panders to the very lowest common denominator. More, we have a government that doesn't solve problems anymore, it just plays politics and the end result of legislation is ineptitude in putting it into practice. Or, in a shorter form, we've stopped thinking rationally as a culture.

[DanTSX]

I'm guessing, but your favourite ever scene is the volleyball game in Top Gun.

You really do have self image problems Karl. 'Faggity and not fight back'? Presumably you have this delusion that homosexuals are weak and incapable of defending themselves and all rough tough macho men (with their gun of course) are uber male?

You can't make it up.

The perceived violence against homosexuals is a perfect example of real life self defense needs for firearms.  Gay men and women should not be limited to what calibers, capacity, and firearm types they are allowed if they feel that they have rationalized the need for it.  Nor should anyone else.

[DanTSX]

succinctly,  you crave potency and control. You seek to impress with sleek, supple designs. You can be as loud or as quiet as you wish to be, demonstrating your mastery of the moment. Ultimately,  you derive satisfaction from what you see as total control of your destiny.

lol so a zen master.

[Quick Karl]

Why the US is screwed up. Well, it's because the half of us that are political politicize everything, and the half that isn't political just wants a hand out. It's all division now. Further, we have a media that joins in and must be political, and we have a dumbed down pop culture that panders to the very lowest common denominator. More, we have a government that doesn't solve problems anymore, it just plays politics and the end result of legislation is ineptitude in putting it into practice. Or, in a shorter form, we've stopped thinking rationally as a culture.

The problem in America today is that we have 300-million people that all want to tell everyone else how they should be thinking and living, while they ignore their own blistering fuck-up lives.

[Quick Karl]

From a scientific point-of-view, and without reiterating the myriad of symptoms that do not address the problem but only stand to make people feel like they're acting intellectual and well-reasoned (but do absolutely nothing positive or remedial), what it is that changed in America in the last 50-years or so, that we've become a country infected by Jerry Springer civility, worse racism than ever before, abject disrespect for life and/or other people, and the mind-boggling increase in the rate of murder and other crimes such as "the knock out game", and the exponential growth of fatherless-single-parent-families - and that is just tip of the iceberg.

It surely isn't the teachings of Jesus or Christianity that is the catalyst for all of these atrocities. Has to be something else that has taken place in America. Now, if we can have an honest discussion about what the cause for the problems are, I'll be polite, if you have the balls to be honest...