Art Bell

[Element 115]

It's in the DATA!

AKA

[DebbyS]

Related to earlier post about Phil Hendrie:

http://podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=442&pid=575179

[Claudius]

The debate itself about all of this is long dead, albeit unburied, but this has been a rare opportunity to witness the birth of a new Truther subculture, and to see the underlying psychology at work.  And it’s instructive.

Previously I had assumed that Truthers were created when people misunderstood one or two keys facts, or had been given some false information which led them to false conclusions.

But actually, it appears to be a complete breakdown of higher reasoning ability.  They can employ basic grammar properly, for the most part, so it’s not due to any acute structural defects in the brain.  Instead, it’s as if the entire edifice of abstract thought has become unmanageable for these people â€" the normal capacity to discern the difference between fears, suspicions and imaginings from facts, evidence and causal relationships, has been completely disabled.

It appears that the rise of a few insidious cultural memes, like “all opinions are equally valid” have corrupted the very notion of objective reality.  We seem to be witnessing a form of culturally induced schizophrenia â€" a disease that infects the mind itself, completely bypassing the physical brain.

I wonder if this is some kind of natural and accidental cultural phenomenon, or if we’re being subjected to some kind of “meme warfare.”

In the past I probably would’ve laughed at that idea, but that took a sharp turn when Snowden leaked this document that illustrates the incredible and chilling sophistication of modern covert online psyops programs:

The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
https://edwardsnowden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

I like how you paint everyone who does not either fully believe the story, or in some cases think it's entirely made up as Truthers. Yet you are actually considering the fact that these people may be part of some sort of anti-Art Bell conspiracy. Get real. Also those "programs" you find so chilling aren't really that scary or new, everyone does, and has been doing it for a decade. Snowden has an agenda, and that's attention.

[Dr. MD MD]

The debate itself about all of this is long dead, albeit unburied, but this has been a rare opportunity to witness the birth of a new Truther subculture, and to see the underlying psychology at work.  And it’s instructive.

Previously I had assumed that Truthers were created when people misunderstood one or two keys facts, or had been given some false information which led them to false conclusions.

But actually, it appears to be a complete breakdown of higher reasoning ability.  They can employ basic grammar properly, for the most part, so it’s not due to any acute structural defects in the brain.  Instead, it’s as if the entire edifice of abstract thought has become unmanageable for these people â€" the normal capacity to discern the difference between fears, suspicions and imaginings from facts, evidence and causal relationships, has been completely disabled.

It appears that the rise of a few insidious cultural memes, like “all opinions are equally valid” have corrupted the very notion of objective reality.  We seem to be witnessing a form of culturally induced schizophrenia â€" a disease that infects the mind itself, completely bypassing the physical brain.

I wonder if this is some kind of natural and accidental cultural phenomenon, or if we’re being subjected to some kind of “meme warfare.”

In the past I probably would’ve laughed at that idea, but that took a sharp turn when Snowden leaked this document that illustrates the incredible and chilling sophistication of modern covert online psyops programs:

The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
https://edwardsnowden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

I find a lot of what you're saying interesting particularly about the memes and "culturally induced schizophrenia" but honestly, I think you're building a fantasy upon another fantasy here. This isn't a fomenting core of Art Bell Truthers. It's just a bunch of 4chan kids out for some shits and giggles. Ciardelo, bring this guy up to speed. 

[Q-Pi]

it appears to be a complete breakdown of higher reasoning ability / culturally induced schizophrenia / “meme warfare"

All dysfunctions that apply to myself since falling in to the Rabbit Hole known as bellgab. I kind of wish Art had never plugged this community as I'm very confused how/why this bizarre Universe can actually "be."

[Claudius]

I find a lot of what you're saying interesting particularly about the memes and "culturally induced schizophrenia" but honestly, I think you're building a fantasy upon another fantasy here. This isn't a fomenting core of Art Bell Truthers. It's just a bunch of 4chan kids out for some shits and giggles. Ciardelo, bring this guy up to speed. 

Why bother waiting for him, all he will do is say

Artbell@artbell.com

[Freyja]

I think we need to discuss Art quitting. Seems like we've been glossing over the subject...

+1 ...LMAO!!

[malachi.martini]

Why bother waiting for him, all he will do is say

Artbell@artbell.com

senpai@kekkek.com

[Dr. MD MD]

Why bother waiting for him, all he will do is say

Artbell@artbell.com

Because it's still hilarious!   

[bellNwhistle]

Lemme get drunk, then we can chat about it.   The "horse" is only mostly dead.

[Ciardelo]

I find a lot of what you're saying interesting particularly about the memes and "culturally induced schizophrenia" but honestly, I think you're building a fantasy upon another fantasy here. This isn't a fomenting core of Art Bell Truthers. It's just a bunch of 4chan kids out for some shits and giggles. Ciardelo, bring this guy up to speed. 

They are. Just shits and giggles. I think there may be a few "lone wolfs", a few "cat ladies", a few who are "running short of a full tank of Arctic Chunga" as well, but essentially you have succinctly summed it up. Thank you Doctor. 

[Philosopher]

Imagine if Art set up an on air interview with the Stalker.   

[Freyja]

A lot of people enjoy speculating and timelines, but honestly we need some new material, so here's another timeline.

Discuss!

May 1997 Art’s son is kidnapped and molested by a substitute teacher
Jun 1997 The perpetrator, Brian Lepley, is arraigned. He is HIV positive; the charges include attempted murder
Dec 1997 On WWCR and WNQM, Ted Gunderson and *David Hickson report that Art Bell was indicted for child molestation and that he paid Nye County to suppress the indictment. Gunderson asks his listeners to storm Art’s open lines to confront him. Art is forced to dump many callers over the next several weeks
May 1998 Art files lawsuit against Gunderson, Hickson, and WNQM and WWCR
Oct 1998 Art’s son attempts suicide
Nov 1998 Art and his son’s mother file lawsuit against Nye County school district on behalf of their son. (The perpetrator had prior offenses for child molestation, but the school district didn’t perform a background check)
Apr 1999 David Oates and Robert Stephens repeat Gunderson and Hickson’s allegations on Oate’s radio program. They further embellish the story by saying that Art is involved in a child pornography ring
May 1999 The molester of Art’s son is convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment
May 1999 Art files lawsuit against Oates & Stephens for slander and defamation
Apr 2000 Art appears in Nashville court for Gunderson trial â€" Art demands and is granted a jury trial
Apr 2000 Art’s father dies
Oct 2000 Gunderson lawsuit is settled out of court
Oct 2000 Oates lawsuit is settled out of court
Jul 2001 fake Philippines letter published in Philippine Daily Inquirer
Jul 2001 Art sues Philippine Daily Inquirer
Jul 2001 Philippine Daily Inquirer reaches out of court settlement, includes publishing retraction and apology
Mar 2004 Nye County School District reaches out of court settlement with Art’s son
Jun 2005 *David Hickson is sentenced to 43 years in prison for murder-for-hire plot of three federal officials
Jan 2006 Ramona dies
Apr 2006 Art marries
Apr 2006 Art moves to Philippines
Oct 2006 Art issues legal warning to Workbench blog for publishing allegations of murder and child molestation
Dec 2006 Art returns to Nevada citing personal threats resulting from the fake Philippines letter re-circulating via The Compass blog

I think I'm starting to see why Art quit the forum.

Why? Art is a celebrity. Because of the former, this is not at all unusual and actually to be expected, no?

[bellNwhistle]

Imagine if Art set up an on air interview with the Stalker.

Friday Night Open Lines "Stalker" line.

[Philosopher]

Lemme get drunk, then we can chat about it.   The "horse" is only mostly dead.

Actually the horse is at full gallup.

[SixWeekTenure(tm)]

I was bored so I untangled the hairball that you yucked onto the carpet.  You're welcome.

Here’s how a rational person reads your post:

"The ultimate conclusion [fact] is that AB isn't broadcasting. The reason I think is boredom with trotting out the same things with the same people from before the internet , tiredness (understandably) and tiredness in trying to resurrect a once great genre that is now flooded. [is irrelevant without supporting facts]

I believe he knew this before he restarted, but thought he'd feel different when he did restart. He doesn't need the money (we're told), but what he does need isn't there for him, namely the love of the gig. That isn't a criticism at all; he owes nothing to anyone, it would be like having a pop at Ronnie Barker when he called it a day performing and went instead into antiques. He knew his time had passed, but that wouldn't take away his brilliant past in TV. [beliefs are irrelevant]

How AB moved on though is the suspect thing [assertion lacking supporting evidence]. This is where the conclusions of his departure method differ; [not supporting evidence of the assertion] Those who accept unquestioningly what he's posted [another unsupported assertion - many here questioned, discussed, and were convinced by the actual facts at hand], had posted on his behalf [or on behalf of the facts of the situation, or both]. In the film Minority Report, the character played by Colin Farrell says the crime scene supposedly left by Tom Cruises character is too evidence heavy (or words to that effect). [irrelevant reference to a fictional film]

       The similarity in the case here is that there's lots of alleged evidence, but nothing of substance [subjective and unsupported conclusion]. Nothing [repeat of the same subjective and unsupported conclusion]. Not only that, but AB has seemingly (if what he says is true; but is it?) deliberately avoided making plans [read: took action by giving in to the demands of his stalker] to keep his family from harms way. Is that logical? [yes it is:  placing "family safety" before "hosting a talk show" is logical] His daughter is terrified curled up on the floor and he does what? Tells everyone! [he took action and then explained it to his fans:  cognitive dissonance factor = zero]
         Not up sticks and drive somewhere anonymous to put them out of harms way which is what normal adult human behaviour would be faced with small arms fire at night. ["normal human behavior" is an apparent oxymoron.  Regardless, having complied with the demands, a rational conclusion appears to be that his family's safety is restored.  Abandoning his home under the new conditions would probably be excessive at this point, though some concern remains.  But since he can be with his family and not on the air in a separate building, he can protect them in case of any untoward events.  Ergo, the facts support the story]
        Then the police statement about not pursuing the case because of lack of any evidence [SOP in cases like this - welcome to America]; and also factor in that AB doesn't want to have it investigated [filing multiple police reports demonstrates otherwise], the first step being would be to furnish the police with names of anyone who he thinks might wish to do him and his family harm [no evidence suggests that this hasn't happened]. A perfectly natural question the police would ask.

Why make it up though? Drama. [a ludicrous and unsupported assertion:  Art's choice of residence at the edge of civilization and his withdrawal from BellGab and FB proves that Art does not enjoy drama]  And a 100% unarguable reason to those who matter, namely the network and affiliates [a desire to retire is also an adequate reason and it happens every day]. Only I think that's backfired [unsupported claim built upon unsupported assertions]. The fall out from simply saying 'I've had enough, I'm taking my ball home' would be really bad [meaningless speculation]; but at least it would be honest [no evidence of dishonesty has ever been presented, so the implication of dishonesty is unsupported by any facts].


So Bob; in answer to your question, the [your personal and factually unsupported] conclusion is, do we accept the version verbatim or not [oops that's not a conclusion, it's a question]. And if not, might it because hardly any of it adds up? [nothing presented here "doesn't add up" except for your allegations, assertions and conclusions]  I'm used to puling things apart [the problem comes in putting things together, it seems], and problem solving stuff that breaks and doesn't work [yes your "problem solving stuff" is broken and doesn't work.  Note: the author may be a plumber]. Which means starting from a base line [bases are foundations, and foundations are based on facts...ergo, there is no foundation here] and going from there [this is how the Tower of Babel was built], and not assuming part M will work [good call, because your argument doesn't work], just because it did yesterday [it won't work tomorrow either, fyi]. In other words, work with what you have [nothing], not what you'd like to [some facts would be nice =) ].

I asked before but no-one could answer ir [unsupported conclusion: many may have simply chosen not to bother]; what if Noory had spun the same yarn because he decided he'd had enough? [hypothetical speculative scenario = irrelevant] I'm sure [you assume] he'd be knocked into next year because he would be universally disbelieved [by you and probably other people with your cognitive biases and dysfunctions, and possibly many others if the facts refuted his claims], because he's Noory, and because the story was likely made up [well then this analogy is misleading, because to date none of the stories Art has shared with the public have ever been known to be deceptive].

[Assessment:  the more rigorously that logic is applied to this situation, the more convincingly the facts speak to the truth of the story as presented.  Conversely, the more extensively that claims, allegations, and suspicions are mistaken for facts and evidence, the more convinced one becomes that the story as presented is fraudulent.

Conclusion:  The story as told is true, and the people who think otherwise are as stupid as they are stubborn.]

[Freyja]

I was bored so I untangled the hairball that you yucked onto the carpet.  You're welcome.

Here’s how a rational person reads your post:

"The ultimate conclusion [fact] is that AB isn't broadcasting. The reason I think is boredom with trotting out the same things with the same people from before the internet , tiredness (understandably) and tiredness in trying to resurrect a once great genre that is now flooded. [is irrelevant without supporting facts]

I believe he knew this before he restarted, but thought he'd feel different when he did restart. He doesn't need the money (we're told), but what he does need isn't there for him, namely the love of the gig. That isn't a criticism at all; he owes nothing to anyone, it would be like having a pop at Ronnie Barker when he called it a day performing and went instead into antiques. He knew his time had passed, but that wouldn't take away his brilliant past in TV. [beliefs are irrelevant]

How AB moved on though is the suspect thing [assertion lacking supporting evidence]. This is where the conclusions of his departure method differ; [not supporting evidence of the assertion] Those who accept unquestioningly what he's posted [another unsupported assertion - many here questioned, discussed, and were convinced by the actual facts at hand], had posted on his behalf [or on behalf of the facts of the situation, or both]. In the film Minority Report, the character played by Colin Farrell says the crime scene supposedly left by Tom Cruises character is too evidence heavy (or words to that effect). [irrelevant reference to a fictional film]

       The similarity in the case here is that there's lots of alleged evidence, but nothing of substance [subjective and unsupported conclusion]. Nothing [repeat of the same subjective and unsupported conclusion]. Not only that, but AB has seemingly (if what he says is true; but is it?) deliberately avoided making plans [read: took action by giving in to the demands of his stalker] to keep his family from harms way. Is that logical? [yes it is:  placing "family safety" before "hosting a talk show" is logical] His daughter is terrified curled up on the floor and he does what? Tells everyone! [he took action and then explained it to his fans:  cognitive dissonance factor = zero]
         Not up sticks and drive somewhere anonymous to put them out of harms way which is what normal adult human behaviour would be faced with small arms fire at night. ["normal human behavior" is an apparent oxymoron.  Regardless, having complied with the demands, a rational conclusion appears to be that his family's safety is restored.  Abandoning his home under the new conditions would probably be excessive at this point, though some concern remains.  But since he can be with his family and not on the air in a separate building, he can protect them in case of any untoward events.  Ergo, the facts support the story]
        Then the police statement about not pursuing the case because of lack of any evidence [SOP in cases like this - welcome to America]; and also factor in that AB doesn't want to have it investigated [filing multiple police reports demonstrates otherwise], the first step being would be to furnish the police with names of anyone who he thinks might wish to do him and his family harm [no evidence suggests that this hasn't happened]. A perfectly natural question the police would ask.

Why make it up though? Drama. [a ludicrous and unsupported assertion:  Art's choice of residence at the edge of civilization and his withdrawal from BellGab and FB proves that Art does not enjoy drama]  And a 100% unarguable reason to those who matter, namely the network and affiliates [a desire to retire is also an adequate reason and it happens every day]. Only I think that's backfired [unsupported claim built upon unsupported assertions]. The fall out from simply saying 'I've had enough, I'm taking my ball home' would be really bad [meaningless speculation]; but at least it would be honest [no evidence of dishonesty has ever been presented, so the implication of dishonesty is unsupported by any facts].


So Bob; in answer to your question, the [your personal and factually unsupported] conclusion is, do we accept the version verbatim or not [oops that's not a conclusion, it's a question]. And if not, might it because hardly any of it adds up? [nothing presented here "doesn't add up" except for your allegations, assertions and conclusions]  I'm used to puling things apart [the problem comes in putting things together, it seems], and problem solving stuff that breaks and doesn't work [yes your "problem solving stuff" is broken and doesn't work.  Note: the author may be a plumber]. Which means starting from a base line [bases are foundations, and foundations are based on facts...ergo, there is no foundation here] and going from there [this is how the Tower of Babel was built], and not assuming part M will work [good call, because your argument doesn't work], just because it did yesterday [it won't work tomorrow either, fyi]. In other words, work with what you have [nothing], not what you'd like to [some facts would be nice =) ].

I asked before but no-one could answer ir [unsupported conclusion: many may have simply chosen not to bother]; what if Noory had spun the same yarn because he decided he'd had enough? [hypothetical speculative scenario = irrelevant] I'm sure [you assume] he'd be knocked into next year because he would be universally disbelieved [by you and probably other people with your cognitive biases and dysfunctions, and possibly many others if the facts refuted his claims], because he's Noory, and because the story was likely made up [well then this analogy is misleading, because to date none of the stories Art has shared with the public have ever been known to be deceptive].

[Assessment:  the more rigorously that logic is applied to this situation, the more convincingly the facts speak to the truth of the story as presented.  Conversely, the more extensively that claims, allegations, and suspicions are mistaken for facts and evidence, the more convinced one becomes that the story as presented is fraudulent.

Conclusion:  The story as told is true, and the people who think otherwise are as stupid as they are stubborn.]

Seriously?!?! ...oh my.

And you know this how??

You are a classic example of both blind faith and hero worship. After everything we know, think we may or may not know and have read, you do not find any large gaping holes in this entire fiasco?!?!

How the HELL is Art's family safer, living/staying in the same place, without any more security of any kind....just because he quits MITD?!?!?

Guess his watching cars drive by has done the trick, no?

[Chronaut]

Imagine if Art set up an on air interview with the Stalker.

I thought the “Art Bell’s Stalker line” was a good idea.

I like how you paint everyone who does not either fully believe the story, or in some cases think it's entirely made up as Truthers.

Thanks.  It’s apropos, because we have plenty of evidence that Art was run off the air by a stalker, and none to the contrary.  Which is what Truthers are all about:  they seem to be so desperate to appear to be cleverer than rational people (the “sheep,” in their egoistic paradigm), that they’ll cite the facts against their argument as proof of their argument.  It’s delusional.

Yet you are actually considering the fact that these people may be part of some sort of anti-Art Bell conspiracy.

No I’m not.  I’m wondering if the capacity for rational thought across the entire world, or at least America and the UK, is under attack.  And the document I cited proves that concern to be legitimate.  But you probably didn’t bother to look at it â€" I guess it’s easier to put your words in my mouth.

Also those "programs" you find so chilling aren't really that scary or new, everyone does, and has been doing it for a decade.

Why does the fact that (you think) it’s only been going on for a decade, make it any less scary or wrong?  By that reasoning, marching Jews into ovens would be okay as long as it’s been done for 10+ years.  You’re not logical.

Snowden has an agenda, and that's attention.

He certainly wanted our attention on the leaked documents.  The rest is speculation.  And even if he was motivated to glean public attention, it doesn’t refute the substance of the documents that he leaked, many of which were deeply alarming.

[Freyja]

The debate itself about all of this is long dead, albeit unburied, but this has been a rare opportunity to witness the birth of a new Truther subculture, and to see the underlying psychology at work.  And it’s instructive.

Previously I had assumed that Truthers were created when people misunderstood one or two keys facts, or had been given some false information which led them to false conclusions.

But actually, it appears to be a complete breakdown of higher reasoning ability.  They can employ basic grammar properly, for the most part, so it’s not due to any acute structural defects in the brain.  Instead, it’s as if the entire edifice of abstract thought has become unmanageable for these people â€" the normal capacity to discern the difference between fears, suspicions and imaginings from facts, evidence and causal relationships, has been completely disabled.

It appears that the rise of a few insidious cultural memes, like “all opinions are equally valid” have corrupted the very notion of objective reality.  We seem to be witnessing a form of culturally induced schizophrenia â€" a disease that infects the mind itself, completely bypassing the physical brain.

I wonder if this is some kind of natural and accidental cultural phenomenon, or if we’re being subjected to some kind of “meme warfare.”

In the past I probably would’ve laughed at that idea, but that took a sharp turn when Snowden leaked this document that illustrates the incredible and chilling sophistication of modern covert online psyops programs:

The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
https://edwardsnowden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

Hmmm....maybe Art Bell started all of the above with his one of his famous quotes  :

"Nothing is as it seems" - Art Bell.

It's Art!! HE started the Truthers!!!!!

You got it!! "The Art of Deception"!!! 

[pyewacket]

Ha- I see the fires are stoked up nicely- please pass the marshmallows.

[Night Train]

Dead Horses
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At what point does the Dead Horse meme become the dead horse itself?

[norland2424]

The thread never changes...

[Element 115]

The thread never changes...

[Night Train]

Night Train and malachi.martini, your speculations concerning Bell's personal life are going a little far.

True love is a real thing, I don't suppose either of you have experienced it or have been married before.

Well maybe you have, but you are making our hero out to be some kind of monster.

Night Train and malachi.martini, your speculations concerning Bell's personal life are going a little far.

A little far? Which of my speculations goes too far, and in what way?

True love is a real thing, I don't suppose either of you have experienced it or have been married before.

My personality defects and sexual inadequacies are legion.  But they are neither here nor there.  People should evaluate my admittedly baseless and scurrilous accusations with no regard for my numerous profound personal failings.  (BTW, just curious - do marital aids really work?)

Well maybe you have, but you are making our hero out to be some kind of monster.

How so?  I think he's lying, and he's got some deep-seated psychological problems, but I haven't come close to accusing him of anything monstrous.

[Freyja]

Yeah, I know...but Kool-Aidnaut hooked me...I know...my bad.

Let's continue...

[Night Train]

I've had it up to here with trolls perpetuating untruths about Art Bell.  The sick comments about him killing Ramona and now having an affair with Redacted are disgusting.  So you are pissed that Art once again quit.  So what?  Life goes on and stop having immature hissy fits that posits speculative untruths that have no bearing on reality.  You people really need to get a life.  I've been avoiding the forum the last few days because you people disgust me.  Go back in your holes and stay there, you miserable fucks.

You're a lying piece of shit.  No one on here is accusing Art of killing Ramona, and I have never accused him of having sex with Heather Wade.

But go ahead and keep making shit up.  Beats the heck out of dealing with the fact that Art's story is obviously horseshit.

[testing101]

[Q-Pi]

Beats the heck out of dealing with the fact that Art's story is obviously horseshit.

[Chronaut]

I find a lot of what you're saying interesting particularly about the memes and "culturally induced schizophrenia"

Thanks .  I think it’s hard to ignore the weird shit going on in American culture especially.  There are large and vocal subcultures supporting every idiotic conclusion imaginable these days.  And their growing numbers emboldens them to conclude that their idiotic beliefs aren’t actually idiotic.  The impact of all this is now even heavily influencing the presidential race.  The country is literally going crazy.  I’m just trying to figure out why.  The two leading theories are that either this is just what happens when a civilization is about to end, or the billions of dollars we’ve been pumping into covert counterintelligence programs has compromised the psyches of millions of people.  Probably some combination of both, I reckon.

but honestly, I think you're building a fantasy upon another fantasy here. This isn't a fomenting core of Art Bell Truthers.

I guess you missed the activity here last week.  Go have a look.  Hell, we’re still seeing people talking nonsense about the “Art Bell false flag operation” here.  It’s crazy talk, and lots of people buy into it.  I wish that was a fantasy.

It's just a bunch of 4chan kids out for some shits and giggles. Ciardelo, bring this guy up to speed.   

There’s always that faction, sure, but lots of people actually think they’ve got “the inside scoop” on “the Art Bell fake stalker conspiracy.”  You couldn’t make this stuff up.  Well, not rational people anyway.

[PB the Deplorable]

A lot of people enjoy speculating and timelines, but honestly we need some new material, so here's another timeline. 

Discuss!

May 1997 Art’s son is kidnapped...

Something I've wondered about but never really wanted to bring up regarding all this, my understanding is the beginning of Art's problems with PremRat stem from him not feeling they supported him sufficiently during this incident.

If that is correct, what was it Art wanted them to do or thought they should have done?