President Donald J. Trump

[ItsOver]

Also, the 747 is the only plane the Secret Service allows for Air Force One.  They require four engines, and the 747 is about the only one left.
It ' s a unique plane.

I don't think there's any argument over similar points concerning the uniqueness of Air Force One but it's also good to be skeptical about ANY costs from government contractors. 

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1989/In-Two-Fraud-Cases-Boeing-to-Pay-$11-Million-GE-Charges-on-Trial/id-95efe06e5d844fd8db54cd483ada720d

[Yorkshire pud]

No one in aviation pays list prices. Airforce one is being built based on the 747-8 so you would think that a lot of the costs would be a bit cheaper because of that, but they are suped up to an extent not publicly known so who knows.

If I remember correctly the 'competition' for the replacement aircraft wasn't exactly fair, with the only possible competitor to Boeing being EADs (Airbus) and they could see it wasn't worth their time and effort so pulled out.

Add in the fall out with using a European based airframe rather than one from the US!

[Taaroa]

Add in the fall out with using a European based airframe rather than one from the US!

That was a large part of it, yes.

[Yorkshire pud]

The age of the aircraft with more than two engines is over. There's a reason why the 747-8 and A380 haven't sold well, and why tri engined planes are only used for cargo.

Sure reliability is several times what it once was, quite apart from the inherent power increases of modern turbines. I believe the 777 was the first twin engined airliner to be certified for trans Atlantic flight.

But I can see why 747's are used now. A smaller airframe with two pods simply couldn't contain what it allegedly carries.

[Juan]

I wonder how long an airframe can fly.  There's a Ford Tri-motor and a couple of C-47s that fly around here all the time.

[Taaroa]

Sure reliability is several times what it once was, quite apart from the inherent power increases of modern turbines. I believe the 777 was the first twin engined airliner to be certified for trans Atlantic flight.

But I can see why 747's are used now. A smaller airframe with two pods simply couldn't contain what it allegedly carries.

I imagine the sole reason is that the Secret Service is thinking of some calamity where they have more than two engine failures at once.

Current maximum safety certification for one engine inoperative is 370min from an emergency airfield, basically meaning modern engines are reliable enough to have them fly anywhere on the globe.

[Taaroa]

I wonder how long an airframe can fly.  There's a Ford Tri-motor and a couple of C-47s that fly around here all the time.

"It depends."

[Yorkshire pud]

I wonder how long an airframe can fly.  There's a Ford Tri-motor and a couple of C-47s that fly around here all the time.

Vintage aircraft have type certificates and are restricted with flying hours and maintenence schedules. If one goes down at a display and pilot error is eliminated, its almost always because a schedule has been overlooked or put off until next time.

AF1 (As all modern commercial aircraft) are expected to fly with very little ground time.

[Yorkshire pud]

I imagine the sole reason is that the Secret Service is thinking of some calamity where they have more than two engine failures at once.

Current maximum safety certification for one engine inoperative is 370min from an emergency airfield, basically meaning modern engines are reliable enough to have them fly anywhere on the globe.

I watched a documentary about the 747 in the UK a few years ago, and a BA test pilot was taking delivery from Seattle to fly it back to Heathrow. But his own shakedown flight had him at FL360 feathering three of the four engines, straight and level. It is a very fine aeroplane.

[21st Century Man]

The 787 isn't Airforce One. It hasn't even a quarter of the level of on board equipment. Airforce One can be in flight refueled for one thing; thats just one difference. And please don't say " yeah, but that's no big deal". The engines on AF1  are far more powerful than a standard 747, it weighs more, it has a rate of climb that could embarrass much smaller faster aircraft. It is rumoured to have anti aircraft defence missiles, it is rumoured to be capable of emitting an anti emp shield. You think all that can be picked up down at Target or Walmart?

If you read my link, you would note that the 747-8 has a cost of 367 million which is less than the 787.  Let's say it cost another billion to soup it up.  That is still far below 2 billion dollars. Add the difference for the profit.  I'm sorry that I can't supply an exact plan of the plane as I'm just an average citizen who doesn't need to know.  They don't want word to get out what the plane does have.  Understandable.

[Taaroa]

It is a very fine aeroplane.

It may well be, but people don't want to pay for the fuel burn and maintenance of four engines when two is just as good.

Also this should illustrate how massive the GE90 is (the engine used on the 777)

[21st Century Man]

Actually I just heard the published cost is actually 165 million for a 747-8 so 367 million is the sell price.

[Yorkshire pud]

Trump says Air Force One Boeing order should be cancelled

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38221579

Mr Trump would not fly on the new planes unless he won a second term in the 2020 US election.

But the US Air Force has urged a faster schedule, saying the current jets are becoming too expensive to repair.

As president and commander-in-chief, Donald Trump will have the power to cancel the contract with Boeing for the new planes.

But if he does, it could cost the US taxpayer even more as the new president tries to save money. The US government has alreadysigned a contract with Boeing for $170m (£134m ; â,¬158m). Additional funding has also been earmarked for the two new planes.

Negotiation between Boeing and the US government could cut some of the costs, but if Mr Trump pulls out of the Boeing contract entirely the country may lose the money it is already contracted to pay.
He later told reporters at Trump Tower in New York that Boeing was "doing a little bit of a number" and the cost was "ridiculous".

Yes Don. Talking like a delinquent airhead always appeals.

[Yorkshire pud]

It may well be, but people don't want to pay for the fuel burn and maintenance of four engines when two is just as good.

Also this should illustrate how massive the GE90 is (the engine used on the 777)

And RR Trents 

[norland2424]

If you read my link, you would note that the 747-8 has a cost of 367 million which is less than the 787.  Let's say it cost another billion to soup it up.  That is still far below 2 billion dollars. Add the difference for the profit.  I'm sorry that I can't supply an exact plan of the plane as I'm just an average citizen who doesn't need to know.  They don't want word to get out what the plane does have.  Understandable.

i do wonder how many are actually ordered, from my understanding there are decoy AF1 flying when the real ones flys anywhere

[Taaroa]

Maybe presidents can go back to using trains to get around the country, and ships for overseas travel. Maybe then your infrastructure won't be such a shamble.

[21st Century Man]

Boeing was also cozy with the Clintons and were counting on Hillary to win so I suspect Trump is a bit miffed about that.  I say if he can cut the costs of the planes then great.  That is money the American people are saving.  Of course the MSM don't see it that way.

[Jackstar]

One can only hope that the new Air Force One will be built to the same exacting standards as, say, the USS Donald Cook.

[21st Century Man]

i do wonder how many are actually ordered, from my understanding there are decoy AF1 flying when the real ones flys anywhere

There are supposed to be two of them.  At a base sell price of 367 million for one.  Let's say the extras cost 500 million per plane.  That is still several hundred million under 2 billion for both planes.

[Gd5150]

Boeing was also cozy with the Clintons and were counting on Hillary to win so I suspect Trump is a bit miffed about that.  I say if he can cut the costs of the planes then great.  That is money the American people are saving.  Of course the MSM don't see it that way.

There is no MSMedia. There's just the Democrat party. No sense in listening to either.

[Yorkshire pud]

Boeing was also cozy with the Clintons and were counting on Hillary to win so I suspect Trump is a bit miffed about that.  I say if he can cut the costs of the planes then great.  That is money the American people are saving.  Of course the MSM don't see it that way.

The MSN aren't seeing it anyway; just pointing out the repercussions of Trump cancelling the order. Trump being Trump wouldn't have told you that, so someone should.

[Yorkshire pud]

There are supposed to be two of them.  At a base sell price of 367 million for one.  Let's say the extras cost 500 million per plane.  That is still several hundred million under 2 billion for both planes.

'Lets say'? Is that an accurate figure, or one just pulled out of the air?

[Yorkshire pud]

There is no MSMedia. There's just the Democrat party. No sense in listening to either.

Yeah. Trump knowest all. He has a good brain.

[Taaroa]

And RR Trents 

That reminds me - the 747-8 and 787 have both been having engine issues since entering service. Makes me wonder how that's being dealt with for Airforce One.

Boeing was also cozy with the Clintons

Boeing is cosy with nearly everyone. They must've been spitting chips when EU sanctions on Iran were removed allowing Airbus to sell to a starved market, while Boeing had their hands tied by US sanctions.

[21st Century Man]

'Lets say'? Is that an accurate figure, or one just pulled out of the air?

Let me call my contact in the Defense department and I'll get back with you.   :

Of course I don't know.  I can't see extras costing more than 500 million per plane unless they are installing a missile system or a cloaking device on the planes. :

[Gd5150]

The double standards are glaring...it will be fun watching Trump embarrass the MSM over the next few years...

Trump doesn't have to embarass them, they've been doing it to themselves for decades. MSMedia is now irrelevant. Watching their content is utterly pointless. When's Trump get HIS Nobel Peace Prize like Obama?

[Yorkshire pud]

Let me call my contact in the Defense department and I'll get back with you.   :

Of course I don't know.  I can't see extras costing more than 500 million per plane unless they are installing a missile system or a cloaking device on the planes. :

And how do you know they won't? Cloaking is a probability. Missiles at $ half a million a pop, plus guidance systems, plus defence radar..plus making it all work when it should, every time.

[Yorkshire pud]

Trump doesn't have to embarass them, they've been doing it to themselves for decades. MSMedia is now irrelevant. Watching their content is utterly pointless. When's Trump get HIS Nobel Peace Prize like Obama?

What has any of that got to do with AF1? Trumpspeak is the way forward!

[whoozit]

I wonder how long an airframe can fly.  There's a Ford Tri-motor and a couple of C-47s that fly around here all the time.

You can run into the 100 year old axe that has had its handle replaced 10 times and its head replaced 3 times situation.  With vintage aircraft that can't be replaced someone may have custom parts manufactured when they wear out.

[SciFiAuthor]

Show your workings. I'm interested.

F-22 Raptor = 412 million. That was widely considered too expensive.

B-2 Spirit = 2.1 Billion dollars.

Basic commercial 747 from Boeing = between 228 and 352 million.

4 billion for an unarmed presidential plane is an obscenity.