President Donald J. Trump

[21st Century Man]

umm no he is right, read up on Jackson.

Ummm, no.  He is wrong.  Andrew Jackson was not a swashbuckler.  Andrew Jackson would not have prevented the Civil War either.  He was a slaveholder too.  He treated the Indians like crap.    He was the first President to begin the erosion of State's Rights with his handling of the nullification crisis in South Carolina. You need to read up on Jackson. I'm the first to defend Southerners on many occasions but Jackson was an asshole.  The only thing Trump got right is that Jackson was elected in 1828.

[Lt.Uhura]

For God's sake, please just shut up!

https://twitter.com/SXMPolitics/status/858999704167751680

The stupidity in the WH might be funny if the joke wasn't at the expense (literally) of the American people...

Wilbur Ross Calls Syria Attack Trump’s ‘Entertainment’ At Mar-A-Lago

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross made the remark at a conference some people paid at least $12,500 to attend.

During a swanky Beverly Hills conference on Monday, U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross compared the April 6 U.S. airstrike on Syria to “after-dinner entertainment.” Ross described how President Donald Trump notified visiting Chinese President Xi Jinping of the strike while the two were enjoying dessert at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort.

“Just as dessert was being served, the president explained to Mr. Xi he had something he wanted to tell him, which was the launching of 59 missiles into Syria,” Ross said, according to a report in Variety. “It was in lieu of after-dinner entertainment ... The thing was, it didn’t cost the president anything to have that entertainment.”

(The actual cost of launching the 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles was about $60 million.)...

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5907a92be4b05c3976819ad9?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

[albrecht]

Ummm, no.  He is wrong.  Andrew Jackson was not a swashbuckler.  Andrew Jackson would not have prevented the Civil War either.  He was a slaveholder too.  He treated the Indians like crap.    He was the first President to begin the erosion of State's Rights with his handling of the nullification crisis in South Carolina. You need to read up on Jackson. I'm the first to defend Southerners on many occasions but Jackson was an asshole.  The only thing Trump got right is that Jackson was elected in 1828.

I would consider Jackson more of a Westerner than Southerner in some ways. And I'm sick of people using modern morality, political correctness, or judgement on figures in history. By this standard it would be a very rare case that a long dead person wouldn't be cast in a negative light. Heck, even Lincoln didn't free all the slaves and never claimed that blacks were of equal status or that even we could live together! As an aside I also don't like using pop-psychology and doing psychiatric studies of long dead people.

Jackson was bad for the Indians. Sure he was. If the Indians had modern weapons and technology and happened to be the ones who came to Europe they would've done the same things. History is just a book of various tribes, races, and groups fighting and killing each other- to some extent or another. At, during some rare periods, co-existing and benefiting from trade and relationships and coalitions. Look at how, especially the Plains Indians, treated each other in battle, treated their women, treated the captured, etc. Or the cannibals ones down here. The new-age myth of the totally peaceful Indian drives me nuts. (This is not to diminish their fighting prowess or the legal (sometimes peaceful) society in some of the Eastern tribes. Or that I liked what Whites did to them. But it is nothing new to the world.)

[Dr. MD MD]

Ummm, no.  He is wrong.  Andrew Jackson was not a swashbuckler.  Andrew Jackson would not have prevented the Civil War either.  He was a slaveholder too.  He treated the Indians like crap.    He was the first President to begin the erosion of State's Rights with his handling of the nullification crisis in South Carolina. You need to read up on Jackson. I'm the first to defend Southerners on many occasions but Jackson was an asshole.  The only thing Trump got right is that Jackson was elected in 1828.

You always conveniently emphasize that while never mentioning how he battled against the foundation of big banks and the influence of foreign money in American politics. That's what Trump means and I hope to God he's right about that. Fuck this One World economy!

[aldousburbank]

Look at how, especially the Plains Indians, treated each other in battle, treated their women, treated the captured, etc. Or the cannibals ones down here. The new-age myth of the totally peaceful Indian drives me nuts. (This is not to diminish their fighting prowess or the legal (sometimes peaceful) society in some of the Eastern tribes. Or that I liked what Whites did to them. But it is nothing new to the world.)

The accounts of Comanche warfare and treatment of captures described in Empire Of The Summer Moon are hard to read. Societal norms change. Sometimes for the better. https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591060

[21st Century Man]

I would consider Jackson more of a Westerner than Southerner in some ways. And I'm sick of people using modern morality, political correctness, or judgement on figures in history. By this standard it would be a very rare case that a long dead person wouldn't be cast in a negative light. Heck, even Lincoln didn't free all the slaves and never claimed that blacks were of equal status or that even we could live together! As an aside I also don't like using pop-psychology and doing psychiatric studies of long dead people.

Jackson was bad for the Indians. Sure he was. If the Indians had modern weapons and technology and happened to be the ones who came to Europe they would've done the same things. History is just a book of various tribes, races, and groups fighting and killing each other- to some extent or another. At, during some rare periods, co-existing and benefiting from trade and relationships and coalitions. Look at how, especially the Plains Indians, treated each other in battle, treated their women, treated the captured, etc. Or the cannibals ones down here. The new-age myth of the totally peaceful Indian drives me nuts. (This is not to diminish their fighting prowess or the legal (sometimes peaceful) society in some of the Eastern tribes. Or that I liked what Whites did to them. But it is nothing new to the world.)

Maybe so but the Cherokee and Choctaw Indian tribes were civilized.  It is not just the fact that he treated them like crap forcing them on the Trail of Tears.  He doublecrossed them pretending to be their friend.  I could probably forgive a person of the period treating Indians like crap because he thought they were savages.  Jackson knew better and a doublecross is something that does not sit well with me.

[21st Century Man]

You always conveniently emphasize that while never mentioning how he battled against the foundation of big banks and the influence of foreign money in American politics. That's what Trump means and I hope to God he's right about that. Fuck this One World economy!

You'll pardon me if I take exception to a man who treated some of my ancestors like shit.

[GravitySucks]

The accounts of Comanche warfare and treatment of captures described in Empire Of The Summer Moon are hard to read. Societal norms change. Sometimes for the better. https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591060

Quanah Parker's mother, Cynthia Ann Parker; was kidnapped as a child miles from my acreage. There is a state park near the original homesite now called Ft. Parker State Park.

I am sure that my land was old hunting grounds for the comanches. Several ravines leading down to what was the Navasota river (There is a dam now so it is an impoundment) would have provided great cover and easy access to water due to the spring fed creek that runs through my place.

I have always felt it was special land.

"Stuff You Missed In History Class" has a couple of podcasts on Cynthia Ann and Quanah. She did not live long after being repatriated. He is considered to be the last War Chief of the Comanches.

[Dr. MD MD]

You'll pardon me if I take exception to a man who treated some of my ancestors like shit.

Sorry, that was, of course, tragic and wrong but it doesn't give you the right to act irrationally in response.  Don't you think there's enough of that these days?  :

[21st Century Man]

The accounts of Comanche warfare and treatment of captures described in Empire Of The Summer Moon are hard to read. Societal norms change. Sometimes for the better. https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591060

Yes that was a very good book.  I'm not trying to paint a picture of the Indians as a whole as innocent and guiltless.  The Plains tribes were fierce and and could be merciless.  Of course, by the time of those Indian Wars, word had probably gotten to them about what happened to the Eastern tribes.  The fact of the matter is the Plains tribes warred against each other while the Choctaw and Cherokee Nations were civilized.

Another book covering the same material was also quite good.  This is as much about the Parkers as it is about the movie.

[21st Century Man]

Sorry, that was, of course, tragic and wrong but it doesn't give you the right to act irrationally in response.  Don't you think there's enough of that these days?  :

I'm not being irrational.  I call a spade a spade and Jackson was a traitor to his neighbors.  That is a fact.

[GravitySucks]

Yes that was a very good book.  I'm not trying to paint a picture of the Indians as a whole as innocent and guiltless.  The Plains tribes were fierce and and could be merciless.  Of course, by the time of those Indian Wars, word had probably gotten to them about what happened to the Eastern tribes.  The fact of the matter is the Plains tribes warred against each other while the Choctaw and Cherokee Nations were civilized.

Another book covering the same material was also quite good.  This is as much about the Parkers as it is about the movie.

Near here, along the coast, there were two tribes that most likely performed ritual cannibalism. The Atakapa were probably related to the Choctaw. The Karankawa were probably a separate tribe. Someday I will study more about them.

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm not being irrational.  I call a spade a spade and Jackson was a traitor to his neighbors.  That is a fact.

Yeah but he didn't sell out to the whims of Europe (in particular England) and I respect him for that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o0V6VPX_E0

[21st Century Man]

Yeah but he didn't sell out to the whims of Europe (in particular England) and I respect him for that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o0V6VPX_E0

I'm not a big fan of big banks and the like but in the end Jackson just delayed the establishment of such in the US for 80 years.  What Jackson did to the Cherokee and Choctaw Indians had a more permanent impact.

[mikuthing01]

The Plains tribes were fierce and and could be merciless.

My father told me stories his grandma told of when she was young. About hiding in the field behind their house when the Native Americans came around if her father wasn't there because they would kill them. It seems like that stuff was a really long time ago but it wasn't.

But now instead of defending against the natives with one of these


We defend our ourselves against the dindus with one of these.

[albrecht]

The accounts of Comanche warfare and treatment of captures described in Empire Of The Summer Moon are hard to read. Societal norms change. Sometimes for the better. https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591060

Yeah. I recall some bad fighting in 'peaceful' Eastern tribes also historically and, of course, the interesting sides and almost mercenary and playing of sides during what we call "French and Indian War." But my point is that violence and awful stuff are a feature, sadly,  in most of history in all races and regions (or at least most.) Or abate for a time when one (nation, religion, tribe, race, etc) becomes dominate over an area. Or when some attempts are made between peoples who make laws of war or find mutual benefit in trade and treaties.

[GravitySucks]

My father told me stories his grandma told of when she was young. About hiding in the field behind their house when the Native Americans came around if her father wasn't there because they would kill them. It seems like that stuff was a really long time ago but it wasn't.

But now instead of defending against the natives with one of these


We defend our ourselves against the dindus with one of these.

First Nations evolved their weapons as well.

[21st Century Man]

Near here, along the coast, there were two tribes that most likely performed ritual cannibalism. The Atakapa were probably related to the Choctaw. The Karankawa were probably a separate tribe. Someday I will study more about them.

It is said that the Anasazi....err sorry that is not the pc term these days....the Ancestral Puebloans may have been involved in cannibalism too.  The Choctaw gave the Atakapa their name and it means man-eater.

Anasazi is Navajo for ancient enemies and the modern Puebloans who claim Anasazi heritage resent the term thus the change.

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm not a big fan of big banks and the like but in the end Jackson just delayed the establishment of such in the US for 80 years.  What Jackson did to the Cherokee and Choctaw Indians had a more permanent impact.

He did his part and can't be held responsible for what any weenie did who caved after him. If all presidents had his fortitude we'd be in a lot better place now. However, to constantly conflate one's achievements with errors that were as much a result of the zeitgeist as any one man's decisions is wrong. Yes, the way this country treated blacks and natives was atrocious but we certainly didn't invent that behavior and weren't unique in it's execution either. Most of Europe were also slave traders who wouldn't give a moment's moral consideration to how they were dominating and exploiting others. Your attitude needs maturing before you lose that baby in your bathwater. 

[smccomas69]

I would consider Jackson more of a Westerner than Southerner in some ways. And I'm sick of people using modern morality, political correctness, or judgement on figures in history. By this standard it would be a very rare case that a long dead person wouldn't be cast in a negative light. Heck, even Lincoln didn't free all the slaves and never claimed that blacks were of equal status or that even we could live together! As an aside I also don't like using pop-psychology and doing psychiatric studies of long dead people.

Jackson was bad for the Indians. Sure he was. If the Indians had modern weapons and technology and happened to be the ones who came to Europe they would've done the same things. History is just a book of various tribes, races, and groups fighting and killing each other- to some extent or another. Look at how, especially the Plains Indians, treated each other in battle, treated their women, treated the captured, etc. Or the cannibals down here. The new-age myth of the totally peaceful Indian drives me nuts. (This is not to diminish their fighting prowess or the legal (sometimes peaceful) society in some of the Eastern tribes. Or that I liked what Whites did to them. But it is nothing new to the world.)

Thank you.

Lets for once stop pretending that humans are not anything other than doing what they need to do to survive. The president of the United States is going to do what ever it take to preserve the union. What would have happened if succession would have kicked off then? That is not bait it is a serious question how was the the country set to fight a war? He owned slaves killed Indians and was an asshole. Not surprising history is what it is things were different we can not judge them by our standars. The conflict that he had, not being about slavery if it had gone down how would have things shook out? I am a states rights person that said I love my country and I would not want to see it divided.

Another good thing is maybe, just maybe people will look at this and see the "Tariff of Abominations" and spend some time reading about history.

Completely off topic what pisses me off is how Gen Lee is portrayed. At Appomattox he had the choice of ending the war or unleashing an insurgency that would have lasted for decades. He chose to end it, hell if he had not do you really think the US would be what it is today. Man loved his state believed in the right of the people of the state to choose there own way.

Back on topic how do you think things would have fell if it would have gotten nasty over the tariffs. There were New England states (northerners) pissed off also.   

[smccomas69]

You always conveniently emphasize that while never mentioning how he battled against the foundation of big banks and the influence of foreign money in American politics. That's what Trump means and I hope to God he's right about that. Fuck this One World economy!

He did pay of the national debt.

[albrecht]

Near here, along the coast, there were two tribes that most likely performed ritual cannibalism. The Atakapa were probably related to the Choctaw. The Karankawa were probably a separate tribe. Someday I will study more about them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lvar_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez_Cabeza_de_Vaca
Amazing true story and his journal and observations about the various tribes are interesting

[Dr. MD MD]

He did pay of the national debt.

That too! Back when that was still actually possible. 

[aldousburbank]

Quanah Parker's mother, Cynthia Ann Parker; was kidnapped as a child miles from my acreage. There is a state park near the original homesite now called Ft. Parker State Park.

I am sure that my land was old hunting grounds for the comanches. Several ravines leading down to what was the Navasota river (There is a dam now so it is an impoundment) would have provided great cover and easy access to water due to the spring fed creek that runs through my place.

I have always felt it was special land.

"Stuff You Missed In History Class" has a couple of podcasts on Cynthia Ann and Quanah. She did not live long after being repatriated. He is considered to be the last War Chief of the Comanches.

I've always been a fan of the Quohoda Comanche history. So much so that I have a son named Quanah. Weird side note, I ocassionally get mail here for a former resident of this house- also named Quanah.

[21st Century Man]

He did his part and can't be held responsible for what any weenie did who caved after him. If all presidents had his fortitude we'd be in a lot better place now. However, to constantly conflate one's achievements with errors that were as much a result of the zeitgeist as any one man's decisions is wrong. Yes, the way this country treated blacks and natives was atrocious but we certainly didn't invent that behavior and weren't unique in it's execution either. Most of Europe were also slave traders who wouldn't give a moment's moral consideration to how they were dominating and exploiting others. Your attitude needs maturing before you lose that baby in your bathwater. 

LOL.  Whatever man.  You and I come from different backgrounds and we value different things.  It is ok to disagree.  You highly value what he did regarding the banks and I dont regard it as highly as you do.

[Dr. MD MD]

LOL.  Whatever man.  You and I come from different backgrounds and we value different things.  It is ok to disagree.  You highly value what he did regarding the banks and I dont regard it as highly as you do.

My father always told me native blood was in our family too. I'm not sure I believe him and haven't and probably will never check but I certainly have a lot of respect for native Americans and their culture. Regardless, what Jackson did in standing against big money back then was good for ALL Americans. 

[21st Century Man]

I've said my piece.  What's funny is my Mom hails from Jackson, Tennessee named after Old Hickory himself.  It is ironic that I've come to dislike the man as I've learned more about him.

[21st Century Man]

That too! Back when that was still actually possible. 

It is only in the last 30 years that the debt has become unmanageable.  Of course, the politicians on Capitol Hill think they have a blank check and keep on spending, spending, spending.  Republicans used to be better about spending but no more.

[albrecht]

I've always been a fan the Quohoda Comanche history. So much so that I have a son named Quanah. Weird side note, I ocassionally get mail here for a former resident of this house- also named Quanah.

I find interesting how war and especially personally combat deeds is varied societies/culture becomes the key. Not learned in it but some the Comanche stuff reminds me of Viking stuff, there 'heaven' even would involve being able to fight forever (well not forever, as we know, but for a long time.) And death in battle was the best way to go. The legal combat to settle fueds, that became codified there Is Interesting also. Also impressed by the various Plains Indians etc expectation to be tortured if caught by enemy and respect of sorts for those, even by enemy, for those who could withstand til death  boasting, sing their history, Insult their tortutor, and death song. Also another weird thing , women, according to reports, would be involved in the tortures etc in Comanche stuff, esp on women captured. Some of their stuff still out-competes Inquisition or Muslim ISIS tortures, and with less tech.

[mikuthing01]

My father always told me native blood was in our family too. I'm not sure I believe him and haven't and probably will never check but I certainly have a lot of respect for native Americans and their culture. Regardless, what Jackson did in standing against big money back then was good for ALL Americans. 

I was told that too (and every other white person i know) and supposedly it was only a few generations ago and they had pix of the guy. I could kinda believe it because some of my aunts and uncles have a native look to them. But then my aunt (who looks kinda native) had a genealogy test done and it came back with mostly scandinavian/german and no native at all, or black or jewish but she don't even look Aryan. I think genealogy tests are a joke but if they are right then i am a supreme specimen of the master race because the other side of my family is German as fawk. Sieg Heil