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!!!SPOILER WARNING!!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens discussion

Started by Open Lines Gerry, December 20, 2015, 08:11:28 PM

BellBoy

Quote from: Ciardelo on December 23, 2015, 09:08:47 AM
Is that humongous in metric or imperial?

Truly humongous twattery, on this grand of scale, is traditionally measured in imperial units; specifically in the gravitational FPS system subset of, the 'slug'.  ;)


SredniVashtar

Quote from: BellBoy on December 23, 2015, 10:09:16 AM
Truly humongous twattery, on this grand of scale, is traditionally measured in imperial units; specifically in the gravitational FPS system subset of, the 'slug'.  ;)



Oh, and if you are thinking of visiting civilisation over the festive period and planning on going to see The Mousetrap, the policeman did it!

In other spoiler heavy news:

He was a ghost all along.

He was his own mother.

He was the killer all along.

She was really a man.

And so on...

centaurie

The Force Awakens is a good modern updating of A New Hope, and I enjoyed it. If a child had not seen Star Wars before, I think this would be the best show to inspire them to want more. My boys loved it. I just wish the youngest would learn to watch a movie and let it tell the story. Rather than ask questions every two minutes.

I have to agree with the Marlyn Manson statement.... and yes he needed to keep the mask on. My oldest son suggested Tom Hiddleston should have played Kylo Ren. That would have been a hoot.  I would have loved to seen more of Ben/Kylo's transformation. Pretty sure he has a lot of robotic parts.

I think Captain Phasma was wasted. Why make a cool Chrome Stormtrooper that should be flying around, only to have her get shoved into a trash compactor? Hell, kick out General Hux and let her lead. Hux seemed like a wimp anyway.

Like everyone else, why did they kill off the Max Von Sydow character so quick, and why make him an unknown character that seemed so much like Obi-Wan? They could have made him old Boba Fett, but then his dialogue would not make sense.

Supreme Leader Snoke? Still not sure on that one, and it took me way too long to realize he was all hologram. I would be impressed if the appearance is just a disguise, but I doubt it (mostly). I just hope Emperor Palpatine is really dead... I never liked Dark Empire.

The super weapon? Another Death Star, ok Sun Sucking, Shotgun Death Star? Meh. I'm not sure if in the first EU it was called the Starkiller, but I remember a superweapon, that was a nearly indestructible small spacecraft armed with a special torpedo that could kill suns.

On the funnier side, I'd have loved to see the First Order's Super Star Destroyer done up like a Christmas Tree, in the beginning, scene.

I don't like Han dying, but much better than the cheap shot of killing the Wookie, like they did in the EU. When I saw the setup, I pretty much knew it was going to happen, especially the music.

BB-8 was a scene stealer, I'd like droids if they were like 'him' and R2
I'm glad they did some scenes differently. Loved all the old show references on the Millenium Falcon.


SredniVashtar

Quote from: centaurie on December 23, 2015, 10:19:23 AM
The Force Awakens is a good modern updating of A New Hope, and I enjoyed it. If a child had not seen Star Wars before, I think this would be the best show to inspire them to want more. My boys loved it. I just wish the youngest would learn to watch a movie and let it tell the story. Rather than ask questions every two minutes.

I remember seeing 'Empire' when it came out and was affected by the carbon-freezing scene. That had a real sense of emotion about it, and Han had also been tortured before that as well. The whole film had a sense of threat that I don't think film-makers would be willing to put out there for a general audience these days. That's generally seen as the best film of the lot, of course, but the death scene in TFA reminded me of what we missed in the whole film: any real sense of identification with the characters. Any one of them could have been wiped out and it would not have been much of a loss. It felt, to me, that Sydow was available so they got him in the cast without any real idea of what to do with him. They could have used him to much better effect but they weren't interested.

trostol

Quote from: centaurie on December 23, 2015, 10:19:23 AM


I think Captain Phasma was wasted. Why make a cool Chrome Stormtrooper that should be flying around, only to have her get shoved into a trash compactor? Hell, kick out General Hux and let her lead. Hux seemed like a wimp anyway.



word is she is going to be huge going forward from here

3OctaveFart

I don't read spoiler material, but I am guessing Phasma is Ren's twin, moving forward.

3OctaveFart

I understand the complaints with the movie. I'm just not very hard to please with this stuff, and it doesn't take much to charm the boy nerd who still lives inside.

The Nazi syllogism is not just a drawing - it's what they are. They are the Neo-Nazis, who in fact had/have better guns than the other bad guys did. It works if you think of them as a badly organized terror group with inferior leadership, whereas the Empire ... was an empire.

Quote from: trostol on December 22, 2015, 05:32:30 PM
the guy in front of me and a few chairs down was that 8 year old...and he had to be at least 40

This reminded me of when I saw the Episode IV rerelease in the theater in 1997.  At the beginning of the Death Star battle, when all X-Wing pilots were ordered to report in, I could tell the 30 (or so) year old guy a couple of seats over was starting to tense up.  When it was Luke's turn to chime in, the guy clenched and pumped both fists, and visibly shook as he blurted out "Red Five standing by!"  He was so fired up that he couldn't contain himself.  It was pretty funny.

centaurie

Quote from: trostol on December 23, 2015, 02:19:18 PM
word is she is going to be huge going forward from here

Yep, I've been reading the same, and I hope there is a joke about the trash compactor. :D

centaurie

Quote from: SredniVashtar on December 23, 2015, 10:30:27 AM
I remember seeing 'Empire' when it came out and was affected by the carbon-freezing scene. That had a real sense of emotion about it, and Han had also been tortured before that as well. The whole film had a sense of threat that I don't think film-makers would be willing to put out there for a general audience these days. That's generally seen as the best film of the lot, of course, but the death scene in TFA reminded me of what we missed in the whole film: any real sense of identification with the characters. Any one of them could have been wiped out and it would not have been much of a loss. It felt, to me, that Sydow was available so they got him in the cast without any real idea of what to do with him. They could have used him to much better effect but they weren't interested.

Yes, I agree, that is how it went down. Also, we don't know how many ideas they had floating around, early scripts of the Star Wars saga tell a somewhat different story as well.

Hells Mole

My family wants to go see this movie during the holiday.  I assume this is a common idea and the theaters will be filled to the brim.

I am not a "fan" so to speak of anything really, though I do enjoy things.  I loved the original Star Trek but abhorred JJ Abrams' attitude about how Star Trek was lame and his attempt to make it more Star Wars-esque, action and adventure and all that.  I like that Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek was more thoughtful and socially introspective. I also grew up with Star Wars and loved it for its unique look and vibe.

I have enjoyed some things JJ Abrams has done, the guy is not without ability to churn out an entertaining film. I thought since he said Star Wars was what he really loved and not Star Trek that he'd do a good job with it.

I am troubled I guess by having just took a peak at IMDB.  The Force Awakens has an 8.7 user rating which is impressive for IMDB but oddly the review are almost all panning it.  The main complaints revolve around rehashing
the original movie's storylines so that it comes off more as a sort of reboot than an original story. Also that that the story and character development are very weak.

I didn't think anyone could do worse than the prequels but many people are actually saying the prequels were better, and yet they hate the prequels.  That's scary!

Since I haven't seen it yet I'm obviously in no position to judge, but the IMDB rating vs. reviews factor is damn peculiar.  How could it have such a high rating yet such an overwhelming multitude of horrid reviews?

onan

Quote from: Hells Mole on December 24, 2015, 06:28:00 AM
My family wants to go see this movie during the holiday.  I assume this is a common idea and the theaters will be filled to the brim.

I am not a "fan" so to speak of anything really, though I do enjoy things.  I loved the original Star Trek but abhorred JJ Abrams' attitude about how Star Trek was lame and his attempt to make it more Star Wars-esque, action and adventure and all that.  I like that Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek was more thoughtful and socially introspective. I also grew up with Star Wars and loved it for its unique look and vibe.

I have enjoyed some things JJ Abrams has done, the guy is not without ability to churn out an entertaining film. I thought since he said Star Wars was what he really loved and not Star Trek that he'd do a good job with it.

I am troubled I guess by having just took a peak at IMDB.  The Force Awakens has an 8.7 user rating which is impressive for IMDB but oddly the review are almost all panning it.  The main complaints revolve around rehashing
the original movie's storylines so that it comes off more as a sort of reboot than an original story. Also that that the story and character development are very weak.

I didn't think anyone could do worse than the prequels but many people are actually saying the prequels were better, and yet they hate the prequels.  That's scary!

Since I haven't seen it yet I'm obviously in no position to judge, but the IMDB rating vs. reviews factor is damn peculiar.  How could it have such a high rating yet such an overwhelming multitude of horrid reviews?

The movie is much better than the prequels. The plot does have similarities to the original movies. I have a friend that is probably the biggest fan of Star Wars and all that it encompasses, he says this movie is setting the stage for a very involved story.

Saw the movie last night at the 10:30 pm showing to a mainly empty theatre! We had hoped to avoid the rush so the late show before Christmas Eve seemed like a good idea.

What's up with the map to Luke Skywalker? Why was part of it missing? Where did it come from, and who made it and why? And how long has he been on Scotland-2? Why do they need a map at all when coordinates of the end point would be enough? Or is it at the end of some complex series of hyperspace jumps that need to be made in sequence? Some explanation would  have been nice instead of feeling like a plot hole.

What is the situation with the government anyway? If the First Order are really just a neo-nazi like splinter group trying to resurrect the Empire, how did they build all of these new star destroyers and bankroll a superweapon*? Also why is the Resistance so small, are they separate from the Republic, the military arm of the Republic or just backed by the Republic? If thats the case why do they seem even less substantial than the rebellion? The Republic was mentioned in passing but I felt it was not really explained how they fit in at all. At the end of the movie it felt like nothing had really changed in galactic politics from the end of Return of the Jedi to The Force Awakens.

* I'll let it slide that a planet sized superweapon absorbed the mass of a Star without gravity collapsing said superweapon

onan

Quote from: Agent : Orange on December 24, 2015, 12:27:49 PM
Saw the movie last night at the 10:30 pm showing to a mainly empty theatre! We had hoped to avoid the rush so the late show before Christmas Eve seemed like a good idea.

What's up with the map to Luke Skywalker? Why was part of it missing? Where did it come from, and who made it and why? And how long has he been on Scotland-2? Why do they need a map at all when coordinates of the end point would be enough? Or is it at the end of some complex series of hyperspace jumps that need to be made in sequence? Some explanation would  have been nice instead of feeling like a plot hole.

What is the situation with the government anyway? If the First Order are really just a neo-nazi like splinter group trying to resurrect the Empire, how did they build all of these new star destroyers and bankroll a superweapon*? Also why is the Resistance so small, are they separate from the Republic, the military arm of the Republic or just backed by the Republic? If thats the case why do they seem even less substantial than the rebellion? The Republic was mentioned in passing but I felt it was not really explained how they fit in at all. At the end of the movie it felt like nothing had really changed in galactic politics from the end of Return of the Jedi to The Force Awakens.

* I'll let it slide that a planet sized superweapon absorbed the mass of a Star without gravity collapsing said superweapon

Because the force.

good to see you, man


... I enjoyed the movie and the familiar 'Star Wars' feeling ...

However, I have a couple of quibbles;

1) Rey's force ability: Rapid mastery?
2) A New Hope reboot
3) 3rd Death Star... *sigh*
4) Cpt. Phasma: Was she in this movie?
5) How and why did "Fin," turn so quickly? He was programed since infancy to be a stormtrooper... Rebellious teenager?





pate

Quote from: Meatie Pie on December 23, 2015, 07:32:14 PM
I understand the complaints with the movie. I'm just not very hard to please with this stuff, and it doesn't take much to charm the boy nerd who still lives inside.

The Nazi syllogism is not just a drawing - it's what they are. They are the Neo-Nazis, who in fact had/have better guns than the other bad guys did. It works if you think of them as a badly organized terror group with inferior leadership, whereas the Empire ... was an empire.

Were the Proto-Nazis.

That all happened in a galaxy long ago and far away, etc.

Writing is important.  Not a stab at you Meatie.  Some blood may have splashed on you, but the target was/is the writers...

Full-mony-mony-disclosure:  I haven't seen this epic sinamatic event yet, but fully intend to.

ediot: {embed}https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiDOMuhpqUo{/embed} I'll just leave this hear...



cweb

Quote from: SredniVashtar on December 23, 2015, 10:30:27 AM
I remember seeing 'Empire' when it came out and was affected by the carbon-freezing scene. That had a real sense of emotion about it, and Han had also been tortured before that as well. The whole film had a sense of threat that I don't think film-makers would be willing to put out there for a general audience these days. That's generally seen as the best film of the lot, of course, but the death scene in TFA reminded me of what we missed in the whole film: any real sense of identification with the characters. Any one of them could have been wiped out and it would not have been much of a loss. It felt, to me, that Sydow was available so they got him in the cast without any real idea of what to do with him. They could have used him to much better effect but they weren't interested.

Well said.

I feel like any "threat" here would diminish the ability of Disney to sell toys to kids. A friendlier film is more likely to get the kiddies into the whole Star Wars thing, but I also remember the childhood thrill from thinking Darth Vader was a bit scary. I wonder what the kids will think about the film's emotional depth (or lack thereof) in 20 years.


3OctaveFart

Quote from: pate on December 28, 2015, 02:08:55 AM
Were the Proto-Nazis.

That all happened in a galaxy long ago and far away, etc.

Writing is important.  Not a stab at you Meatie.  Some blood may have splashed on you, but the target was/is the writers...

Full-mony-mony-disclosure:  I haven't seen this epic sinamatic event yet, but fully intend to.

ediot: {embed}https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiDOMuhpqUo{/embed} I'll just leave this hear...
Literary works and artistic creations are assumed to exist in a fluid present tense.

https://revelle.ucsd.edu/humanities/writing-info/writing-skills/literary-present.html

SredniVashtar

Quote from: cweb on December 28, 2015, 07:08:04 AM

I feel like any "threat" here would diminish the ability of Disney to sell toys to kids. A friendlier film is more likely to get the kiddies into the whole Star Wars thing, but I also remember the childhood thrill from thinking Darth Vader was a bit scary. I wonder what the kids will think about the film's emotional depth (or lack thereof) in 20 years.

I remember Darth Vader crushing the windpipe of a rebel fighter within the first few minutes of the first film, and choking anyone who pissed him off as well. I don't know how Rey comes across over there, but to me she sounds like any other Ugg boot wearing slapper you find cluttering up the high streets of most UK towns. I can't think of a single character who engaged my interest. When the excitement dies down, I'd be interested to hear what people's more considered reactions are. If you compare it to the prequels then it is an improvement, obviously, but that is saying practically nothing, because it could hardly have been any worse. I think part of the appeal of the villains from the OT (as nerds like to call it) was the diction of the villains. There were wonderful moments when Peter Cushing just owned the show, but then you compare it to the bleatings of General Hux and you see what part of the problem is - the roles weren't really cast at the proper level, at least for me. To call Kylo Ren some sort of new Vader is pretty laughable, since he is forgettable at best, and it was a bad idea to have him get his ass handed to him by the end of the film.

Centurion40

Quote from: trostol on December 20, 2015, 08:53:16 PM
he was too emo for my taste

my main issue, and let me preface..i didnt hate the movie..it wasnt not bad..i was entertained...BUT..i felt i was watching an updated version of A New Hope...

Rey was a lil too..powerful for ...

i am sure we will get it in the next films..but there really needed a bit more..backstory on some things/people in the movie

and i realized after..it was a bit..disneyfied...Rey probably a new disney princess

Nailed it.  100%

Centurion40

Quote from: Open Lines Gerry on December 22, 2015, 01:41:00 AM
How lame / disappointing was Captain Phasma?  The chrome trooper uniform was awesome, but:
- the character didn't really do anything
- also shouldn't have been a woman

Like Boba Fett, a whole mythos could have risen for this character based on the costume alone - a missed opportunity, in my opinion.

Yep. +1

Centurion40

My 11 year-old son didn't like it.  He said that there was not enough light sabre fighting for his liking.

On the upside, the First Order Stormtroopers are marginally better shots than their Imperial counterparts.

3OctaveFart

Abrams was under a lot of pressure to execs and fans. There just weren't many creative risks he could take.

Which is why the next film should be the true barometer.

3OctaveFart

http://geektyrant.com/news/george-lucas-says-he-sold-star-wars-to-white-slavers-elaborates-on-his-thoughts-about-the-force-awakens

Quote"They looked at the stories, and they said, 'We want to make something for the fans'....They decided they didn't want to use those stories, they decided they were going to do their own thing....They weren't that keen to have me involved anyway â€" but if I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble, because they're not going to do what I want them to do. And I don't have the control to do that anymore, and all I would do is muck everything up. And so I said, 'Okay, I will go my way, and I'll let them go their way.'"

"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie I work very hard to make them completely different, with different planets, with different spaceships, make it new."

"I've been fascinated with the true nature of the medium â€" it's been used more as a recording medium, than as a art form unto itself," Lucas elaborated. "...they call them tone poems â€" in the beginning in Russia, this was a whole movement of: how do you tell visual stories, basically without dialogue, without all the things you use to tell a story, and you just use the film itself. It's kind of esoteric, it hasn't come much further in one hundred years. I'm going to try and take it into something that is more emotionally powerful than most of the stuff we've done up to this point."


Art_s Farts

Just saw it with the wife. I thought it was pretty good. Highlight for me was when Kylo Ren took off his mask, my wife said "I didn't know Gene Simmons son was in the movie"

It was pretty asinine that Rey is all the sudden powerful in the Force and even overpowered Kylo at the end by grabbing that light sabre.  BULLSHIT.

In the back of my mind when I was watching the movie, I kept thinking that Luke would show up to fight after he sensed the death of Han and save Rey at the end, by beating Kylo convincingly.  But noooooooooo, they were dead set on making the skinny little female the most powerful, LOL.  The rest of this franchise is aimed at the SJW's.  Great movie, but if this shit is going to turn in to a chick fest, then I'll watch something else.  It seems they are actively trying to cast females for part 8 too.  Fuck that.   Heck, I guess I'm sexist, but I like my sci fi films with as little estrogen possible.


I'd like to point out that the only reason Kylo Ren was defeated was because of Chewbacca.  If Chewie hadn't shot Kylo Ren, Rey would be dead.    The camera even made a point to highlight his injury, so suck on that.

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