• Welcome to BellGab.com Archive.
 

Illegal immigration

Started by bateman, June 09, 2014, 05:49:18 PM

Go Down Pages1 2 3 4 5

TheMan WhoFell ToEarth

#2
June 09, 2014, 05:57:29 PM
Same reason we have sodomy laws I'd venture.

pyewacket

#3
June 09, 2014, 09:20:28 PM
I'm curious to see how people view this. I'm neither left or right- two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. Isn't it a matter of national security to secure our borders? I can't think of many countries that are this lax about it. I'm sure others here could comment on that.

So what happens next? They estimate over 200,000 children in the next year or so. Do they become anchor "babies" and open the door to as many relatives as they can? I do feel for these kids- they come from some very dangerous places and it's not their fault, but what are we to do? This is going past immigration and is looking more and more like a refugee situation. How do we absorb all of these people? How can our economy support them when we have nearly a third of Americans not working? What about schooling, housing, medical care, and other social services? Who is going to pay for this? I know people will say that we can divert money from the military, but how far do we take that and how do we fulfil our obligations to our veterans? There are already reports of outbreaks of disease and parasites- how will this be contained? Do you think the feds are up for this? Look at how they've handled natural disasters- Katrina? That went well. If there is little to no border security- how do we prevent terrorists from entering the country? Sorry to be a nasty person- we've got family members from other countries, but they all came here legally and acclimated to our culture. We're happy to have them.     

Zoo

#4
June 09, 2014, 10:31:28 PM
Well I hate both parties with all my heart and this is my opinion.

Let them all in. Let them be citizens what is wrong with this? We are all foreign in this country, just ask the Native Americans. As for security. Well that is a joke. If you want to be secure go to prison and go to solitary confinement. You are still not even secure their because if the guards are evil you are screwed in more ways then one!!1   

bigchucka

#5
June 09, 2014, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 10:31:28 PM
Well I hate both parties with all my heart and this is my opinion.

Let them all in. Let them be citizens what is wrong with this? We are all foreign in this country, just ask the Native Americans. As for security. Well that is a joke. If you want to be secure go to prison and go to solitary confinement. You are still not even secure their because if the guards are evil you are screwed in more ways then one!!1   

The ones that want to come here in order to find an opportunity to make a better life... that's one thing.  The ones that are 9 months pregnant that sneak across the border to have a "born on U.S. soil" child because the ways things are set up you automatically qualify for social welfare programs that are already stretched to the limits by people defrauding the system... that is going to break the system and as a result no one will be able to get help... even the ones that could genuinely use it.

pyewacket

#6
June 09, 2014, 10:53:08 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 10:31:28 PM
Well I hate both parties with all my heart and this is my opinion.

Let them all in. Let them be citizens what is wrong with this? We are all foreign in this country, just ask the Native Americans. As for security. Well that is a joke. If you want to be secure go to prison and go to solitary confinement. You are still not even secure their because if the guards are evil you are screwed in more ways then one!!1   

Hi Zoo- how many is too many? I'm second generation- my people came here legally via Ellis Island- they had to have some job skills, some English proficiency, Had to have a clean bill of health, and have no criminal record. Aren't these reasonable conditions to require for potential citizens? My family came in an earlier wave of European Immigrants when there were jobs in manufacturing, mining, and many other fields of hard physical labor. We lost grandads to Black Lung from the mines. They wanted to be American- some old customs were kept but we all identified with America first and only our elders spoke the old country tongue.

Conditions in America are not the same today- some things are better, other things are much worse. How do we employ all of them? If they are unable to find work- how do we support them all? Our social systems are strained - how much more can we add?

If people are not willing to assimilate, do we then balkanize the country?

Zoo

#7
June 09, 2014, 10:59:56 PM
Corporations are the biggest welfare takers. Do not fall for what you see on TV.
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/

Learn the numbers!!1

Quick Karl

#8
June 09, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
The borders are left wide open, intentionally, for illegal-alien-low-wage-labor, and to undermine the political power of genuine American Citizens.

It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with anything altruistic and to believe so, is beyond naïve.

Certainly, some folks want to come here to have better lives, but the far larger majority are coming here, to get free shit, that Citizens that work for a living are being extorted to pay for. Now, if you do not contribute to the cost, because you yourself are living "off the system", in the parasitic sense, then it doesn't surprise me that the real issues, do not currently concern you.

But, they will, and you will have only yourself to blame...

bigchucka

#9
June 09, 2014, 11:03:09 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 10:59:56 PM
Corporations are the biggest welfare takers. Do not fall for what you see on TV.
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/

Learn the numbers!!1

Well we know they make personal bribes that are so large that they're "public assistance"  is not going to be cut or reduced...

Quick Karl

#10
June 09, 2014, 11:06:04 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 10:59:56 PM
Corporations are the biggest welfare takers. Do not fall for what you see on TV.
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/

Learn the numbers!!1

So, since we are powerless to fight those big mean bullies, we should just hit the bong while our birthrights are handed to people that will soon be doing your job for half the cost, while those mean bully corporations, make EVEN MORE PROFIT than they are making now, which is the goal behind the entire sham...

Brilliant logic! Let's do this! By supporting open borders, you are, in fact, supporting HIGHER PROFITS for the Corporations you cry about.

You should run for Congress!

pyewacket

#11
June 09, 2014, 11:24:10 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 10:59:56 PM
Corporations are the biggest welfare takers. Do not fall for what you see on TV.
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/

Learn the numbers!!1

One problem at a time. You're trying to deflect from this issue by saying these corporations are much worse. Please stay on topic- thanks.

Zoo

#12
June 09, 2014, 11:58:49 PM
Quote from: pyewacket on June 09, 2014, 11:24:10 PM
One problem at a time. You're trying to deflect from this issue by saying these corporations are much worse. Please stay on topic- thanks.

I was showing a hole in a argument about the topic. But thank you for making sure we stay on topic.

Most the people who come here illegally come here off of a Airplane not across the border. They are from every race so why do we keep are focus on brown people so much? Lets stop thinking it is just are southern borders this is happening and get real about it.

As for how many is to many well I have no clue but I do know this are country was built for immigrants and buy immigrants. So once we stop taking them in we have turned are back on all those who did so much for this Nation!!1

Catsmile

#13
June 10, 2014, 12:17:33 AM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 10:31:28 PM
Well I hate both parties with all my heart and this is my opinion.

Let them all in. Let them be citizens what is wrong with this? We are all foreign in this country, just ask the Native Americans. As for security. Well that is a joke. If you want to be secure go to prison and go to solitary confinement. You are still not even secure their because if the guards are evil you are screwed in more ways then one!!1   

Nice sentiment... but if you do that it won't be long until you are living in a over crowded shit hole. A shit hole like all the immigrants were trying to escape from. There is no easy answer, like welcome them all over, or keep them all out.

Maybe they should stay where they are. Making where they live a better place, instead of fleeing for greener pastures. America was forged into what it is today by a lot of hard working people of all colors. The United States truly is a melting pot of people. Almost nowhere else is there such a diverse group of people, with a unified "dream." 

Dreams are not enough to live in America today, you need some real skills. Skills that some of those immigrants don't have. Most foreigners I have talked to that wanted to come to America think life here is easy, but it's not as easy as they think. Especially if you don't have any basic skills. Skills such as basic education, good work ethics, money management, tools they don't have.

Some of the foreigners living here that I have talked to were surprised at how hard it was to make it in America. Not only was it a big culture shock, but a lot of hard work to have and maintain the standard of living we enjoy.

When you come from a place where you have never worked for a place that expects you to show up every day and on time. That's hard to do if your culture never taught you that. When you get paid, if you blow all your money before paying bills, you fail. Being so poor they never really have any money, they just pool whatever cash their extended family has, eating for today, living for today. When they get a large sum of money they blow most of it right away, until they are broke. Rinse and repeat. Not all of them are like that. Those people tend to do better wherever they live, even if it's not as high a standard of living the first world has. And those that do okay where they live are less likely to want to leave there family roots, and home.

Again no easy answers.

pyewacket

#14
June 10, 2014, 12:36:34 AM
Quote from: Zoo on June 09, 2014, 11:58:49 PM
I was showing a hole in a argument about the topic. But thank you for making sure we stay on topic.

Most the people who come here illegally come here off of a Airplane not across the border. They are from every race so why do we keep are focus on brown people so much? Lets stop thinking it is just are southern borders this is happening and get real about it.

As for how many is to many well I have no clue but I do know this are country was built for immigrants and buy immigrants. So once we stop taking them in we have turned are back on all those who did so much for this Nation!!1

Zoo, you're going to have to do better than that. I'm merely asking questions so you can clarify your position. Straw man arguments are a waste of time.

I'm not picking on any particular group- we've got "brown people" in our family - all legal. When you talk about illegals coming in the US by plane are you referring to students and guest workers, H-4 workers? They are required to have visas. A good friend of ours is from Japan and she had to pay a good deal of money for hers and is pissed about the illegals breaking the law. Another friend from Mexico also is angry. I hope you're not insinuating racism- because that's another way to try to silence people. There is none on my part.

Yes, this country was built by indigenous people, colonists, indentured servants, slaves, and immigrants and there will always be a need for LEGAL immigration. Do you think you can just throw away laws and open the borders to anyone, with no consideration for the consequences? What about criminals, gangs, cartels, and other forms of organized crime? Won't this expand our prison system even more? How much more can you tax a struggling middle class?   

 

Mind Flayer Monk

#15
June 10, 2014, 01:07:00 AM
Quote from: pyewacket on June 10, 2014, 12:36:34 AM
When you talk about illegals coming in the US by plane are you referring to students and guest workers, H-4 workers? They are required to have visas. A good friend of ours is from Japan and she had to pay a good deal of money for hers and is pissed about the illegals breaking the law.

The owner of the house, Dwight Chang, from Arcadia, was fined $800 for running an illegal business.
I am pretty sure with this get tough stance we will discourage others from trying to set up this kind of business.

"A dozen Chinese 'maternity tourists' who paid $35,000 to have their babies born in the U.S. found in townhouse bust"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369657/Chinese-maternity-tourists-paid-35-000-babies-born-U-S.html

"I Want an American Baby! Chinese Women Flock to the U.S. to Give Birth
Lured by U.S. citizenship for their children, thousands of Chinese women give birth annually in the States, supporting a thriving birth-tourism industry"
http://world.time.com/2013/11/27/chinese-women-are-flocking-to-the-u-s-to-have-babies/

It is under the topic "Birth Tourism".

pyewacket

#17
June 10, 2014, 08:01:21 AM
Quote from: Mind Flayer Monk on June 10, 2014, 01:07:00 AM
The owner of the house, Dwight Chang, from Arcadia, was fined $800 for running an illegal business.
I am pretty sure with this get tough stance we will discourage others from trying to set up this kind of business.

"A dozen Chinese 'maternity tourists' who paid $35,000 to have their babies born in the U.S. found in townhouse bust"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369657/Chinese-maternity-tourists-paid-35-000-babies-born-U-S.html

"I Want an American Baby! Chinese Women Flock to the U.S. to Give Birth
Lured by U.S. citizenship for their children, thousands of Chinese women give birth annually in the States, supporting a thriving birth-tourism industry"
http://world.time.com/2013/11/27/chinese-women-are-flocking-to-the-u-s-to-have-babies/

It is under the topic "Birth Tourism".

Thanks for the links- It used to be pregnant women sneaking over the border to give birth and now it's a bigger industry. The level of exploitation proves that the birth law needs to be changed and our present laws on immigration need to enforced and strengthened for the good of all.

Quick Karl

#18
June 10, 2014, 08:50:20 AM
Quote from: b_dubb on June 10, 2014, 04:24:20 AM
Someone needs to forward this to Pope Francis. Maybe they'll finally tell Catholics to use birth control and flatten out population growth

Those darned Catholics, again!

Zoo

#19
June 10, 2014, 11:52:59 AM
We are all to blame for this problem and all other because we hold nobody responsible anymore. We will never solve this problem in my life time unless it is something drastic. Like taking all the Military that is in the USA and put them on the border with orders shot once to warn twice to kill. That is the only way I ever see this stopping. Once that happens well then we have become what we hate. So like I said it will never be solved because we will never be able to agree on the beat action. All we will do is talk and talk and talk and talk and nothing will get done. This has become the American way unless corporations figure away to make money on capturing illegals it will stay the same. The Government only listens to Corporations anymore so what we say means nothing!!1 

albrecht

#20
June 10, 2014, 12:17:48 PM
Cheap labor, future uneducated voters, Balkanization of the country, increased government spending necessity, and more victims for sex trade. What is not to like! At least in the mind of most government officials and their corporate controllers? Especially since so many of these latest illegals are children; prime for exploitation and "molding."

We could easily solve the problem but nobody, at least in higher office, wishes too. Simply having severe criminal and civil liabilities for any person or company that hires an illegal. Bill the country-of-origin for every illegal we catch from that country (if they won't pay the bill than take it from the money/aid we send that country or seize assets they hold in our bank or Federal Reserve bank.) And, lastly, we could mine the border using "smart" mines to avoid damage to precious animals and wildlife (and have many commercials and signage showing the danger to avoid human deaths.)

Zoo

#21
June 10, 2014, 03:50:04 PM
Quote from: albrecht on June 10, 2014, 12:17:48 PM
We could easily solve the problem but nobody, at least in higher office, wishes too. Simply having severe criminal and civil liabilities for any person or company that hires an illegal. Bill the country-of-origin for every illegal we catch from that country (if they won't pay the bill than take it from the money/aid we send that country or seize assets they hold in our bank or Federal Reserve bank.) And, lastly, we could mine the border using "smart" mines to avoid damage to precious animals and wildlife (and have many commercials and signage showing the danger to avoid human deaths.)

It sounds like it would work but will never happen. Would you like to guess why!!1

Quick Karl

#22
June 10, 2014, 04:07:24 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 10, 2014, 03:50:04 PM
It sounds like it would work but will never happen. Would you like to guess why!!1

Because folks like you would refuse to cooperate?

Zoo

#23
June 10, 2014, 05:29:40 PM
Quote from: Quick Karl on June 10, 2014, 04:07:24 PM
Because folks like you would refuse to cooperate?

No-well ya your right I would never go alone with it because I believe we have one Earth and if we do not learn to live as a whole are grandchildren"s grandchildren will have no earth to live on!!1

albrecht

#24
June 10, 2014, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 10, 2014, 05:29:40 PM
No-well ya your right I would never go alone with it because I believe we have one Earth and if we do not learn to live as a whole are grandchildren"s grandchildren will have no earth to live on!!1
That is the problem. Borders are necessary. Individualism is necessary. Different cultures and languages are necessary. Choice is necessary. The whole "global village", tower-of-babel, and collectivist utopia ideas are the cause of much of the world's problems- today and in the past. Whether simply Pollyannaish and misguided; or outright evil and demented those collective, globalist, top-down, centralized control grid and social melding schemes fail and cause untold damage to people.

Zoo

#25
June 10, 2014, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: albrecht on June 10, 2014, 05:39:50 PM
That is the problem. Borders are necessary. Individualism is necessary. Different cultures and languages are necessary. Choice is necessary. The whole "global village", tower-of-babel, and collectivist utopia ideas are the cause of much of the world's problems- today and in the past. Whether simply Pollyannaish and misguided; or outright evil and demented those collective, globalist, top-down, centralized control grid and social melding schemes fail and cause untold damage to people.

I would go with Religion being the down fall but that is just me, We can still be one Earth and not kill or hate each other I really think this is possible. Look what the internet has done almost the whole world has a voice now!!1

albrecht

#26
June 10, 2014, 06:59:36 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 10, 2014, 05:51:43 PM
I would go with Religion being the down fall but that is just me, We can still be one Earth and not kill or hate each other I really think this is possible. Look what the internet has done almost the whole world has a voice now!!1
The internet has good uses, for sure. But bringing people together and providing the "whole world a voice"? Not sure about that. Certainly allows dangerous or harmful ideas and rumors to spread more quickly. Causing people not to be able to think or remember things because "they can just google it."

I might be wrong but I think the internet in the long-run it will actually curb new discoveries and theories because the internet might force independent thinkers into a "consensus" models or set them down similar paths- instead of developing them themselves or more locally and "thinking outside the box," to use a trite phrase I hate. Think in the old days you could have things like Calculus and various maths developed independently by disparate people around the globe by different methods etc. Only later once theories were well-developed were they brought together. Or by slow correspondence where there was time to ponder, reply, and think about the issues and ideas. Now if they were all "connected" instantly would the same theories develop or peter out? Or everyone start down the same path and solution and thereby missing a new, innovative idea or method?

Quick Karl

#27
June 10, 2014, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 10, 2014, 05:29:40 PM
No-well ya your right I would never go alone with it because I believe we have one Earth and if we do not learn to live as a whole are grandchildren"s grandchildren will have no earth to live on!!1

The problem with that ideal is that unless you get every single person on the planet to agree with it, you're going to get fucked, and some thug, just like in the ghettos, or in Washington DC, is going to say fuck you, kick your door in, invade your home, take your shit, and kill you.

So, you MUST decide to stand together to protect your community's right, in the larger sense, to protect its self-interests -- as in living in relative peace and safety, and protecting the job and wage standard you rely on to feed your children.

Otherwise, you're just as good as your own enemy.

Zoo

#28
June 10, 2014, 09:05:48 PM
Quote from: albrecht on June 10, 2014, 06:59:36 PM
The internet has good uses, for sure. But bringing people together and providing the "whole world a voice"? Not sure about that. Certainly allows dangerous or harmful ideas and rumors to spread more quickly. Causing people not to be able to think or remember things because "they can just google it."

I might be wrong but I think the internet in the long-run it will actually curb new discoveries and theories because the internet might force independent thinkers into a "consensus" models or set them down similar paths- instead of developing them themselves or more locally and "thinking outside the box," to use a trite phrase I hate. Think in the old days you could have things like Calculus and various maths developed independently by disparate people around the globe by different methods etc. Only later once theories were well-developed were they brought together. Or by slow correspondence where there was time to ponder, reply, and think about the issues and ideas. Now if they were all "connected" instantly would the same theories develop or peter out? Or everyone start down the same path and solution and thereby missing a new, innovative idea or method?

I like saying google it saves a ton of time.

As for the other would you say school does not do that? We are taught this is how it is and do not question me(teacher) or you will get in trouble. Unless you are willing to risk getting in trouble for going outside the lines then everything stays the same like Dark Ages. People will always question the so called system and I for one think that is awesome. So it will be the same with the internet in my opinion!!1
 

Quick Karl

#29
June 10, 2014, 09:28:27 PM
Quote from: Zoo on June 10, 2014, 09:05:48 PM
As for the other would you say school does not do that? We are taught this is how it is and do not question me(teacher) or you will get in trouble.

Now THERE you have just identified one of THE most serious problems with this country. The high and mighty so-called intellectual-paragons of society teaching precisely that which is the antithesis to an actual education - tyranny.

But like so many people that have themselves convinced they are better than everyone else -- they couldn't be more wrong, and couldn't be doing more harm to OUR society, if they tried - they believe it is THEIR society, and we are just visiting... They are incapable of looking in a mirror, but are the first to critique anyone and everyone that dares challenge their "authority".

That is the precise dogma that has led to violence in so many countries it is sickening, and will lead to it in ours, if it is not stopped.

And, THEY do more to divide out society, than ALL of the Phil Robertsons' could ever do.
Go Up Pages1 2 3 4 5
Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod