• Welcome to BellGab.com Archive.
 

Art Bell

Started by sillydog, April 07, 2008, 11:21:45 PM

Quote from: sorefinger on September 26, 2015, 09:59:42 PM
Art, you had mentioned during a recent show that you couldn't get your head around string theory -- or understand how two electrons on either end of the universe can communicate instantaneously.  I hadn't been able to make sense of it either, that is, until I began to look at it this way:

It's accepted that it takes 9 minutes for light to travel from the sun to earth.  That's a long time, considering how fast light actually travels.

Now, imagine if you rig a wire from the sun to earth.  If someone on the sun pulls the wire towards him, say, one foot, then your end of the wire on earth will instantly move one foot, too.  Where it takes 9 minutes for light to travel between the sun and earth, it takes zero time to realize movement of one end of the wire to the other end.

Gravity works exactly like a wire.  If you swing a ball on the end of a wire, circling over and around your head, and then release the wire, the ball will instantly leave your orbit and take a straight line trajectory.

Likewise, if you break the gravity between the sun and earth, the earth will instantly leave the sun's orbit and take a straight line trajectory. This will happen instantaneously.  In other words, there's no 9 minute delay, such as with the time it takes for light to travel from the sun to the earth.

Looking at it this way, I can easily understand how two electrons can instantly communicate with each other, no matter how far apart, even on opposite ends of the universe, because gravity is the one common denominator linking all matter.  As much as gravity remains a mystery, it does function exactly as though it is a wire, which keeps not just planets in orbit but electrons and other particles, too.

If we ever figure out how to harness gravity, in the same way we already know how to harness light, it would mean we can observe a distant star in real time, not delayed by the light years it takes for light to travel from the star to earth.  Likewise, communication by gravity would be instantaneous, not delayed as with light or radio transmission.

I hate to be the naysayer, but I would like to point out a couple of things.   The idea that you could rig a cable or a pole between two distant objects to overcome the speed of light is a common one, but unfortunately incorrect.   Apart from the physical limitations of there being no materials that could deal with the incredible stresses involved to overcome its own inertia, all of the atoms in such a cable would be bound together by electromagnetic forces.   Electromagnetic forces are mediated by the photon, and so no force could propogate along a cable faster than the speed of light.

The second thing is gravity.  It is a consequence of Einstein's Theory of Relativity that gravity must propogate at the speed of light.  It is a difficult thing to measure, but experiments have supported this as being true.  It is generally accepted that gravity cannot travel faster than light.

To put it in more general terms, what we call the speed of light is more correctly the speed of information.  It is as quickly as information about forces can be transferred.  Quantum entanglement gets around this by transferring no useful information (don't ask me  :-\, that's what the physicists say)

Sorry, back to the drawing board :(






sorefinger

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 10:28:15 PM
So with that theory as a model it should be possible to communicate by making long or short tugs on the line and communicate with Morse code at faster then the speed of light?

Art

Exactly. Or better yet, treat gravity as a carrier, then modulate voice on top of it.

SciFiAuthor

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 10:28:15 PM
So with that theory as a model it should be possible to communicate by making long or short tugs on the line and communicate with Morse code at faster then the speed of light?

Art

Another way to look at it is that things may be distant from each other in this dimension, but not necessarily in other dimensions. Another theory that seems to be gaining steam is that the quantum entanglement connection may in fact be due to some form of wormhole. Some physicists scaled the phenomenon up to the scale of two connected black holes. When they separated them the link between them ended up being a wormhole.

And, well, if you've got a worm hole then theoretically FTL communication should be possible. 

albrecht

Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on September 26, 2015, 10:38:45 PM
I hate to be the naysayer, but I would like to point out a couple of things.   The idea that you could rig a cable or a pole between two distant objects to overcome the speed of light is a common one, but unfortunately incorrect.   Apart from the physical limitations of there being no materials that could deal with the incredible stresses involved to overcome its own inertia, all of the atoms in such a cable would be bound together by electromagnetic forces.   Electromagnetic forces are mediated by the photon, and so no force could propogate along a cable faster than the speed of light.

The second thing is gravity.  It is a consequence of Einstein's Theory of Relativity that gravity must propogate at the speed of light.  It is a difficult thing to measure, but experiments have supported this as being true.  It is generally accepted that gravity cannot travel faster than light.

To put it in more general terms, what we call the speed of light is more correctly the speed of information.  It is as quickly as information about force can be transferred.  Quantum entanglement gets around this by transferring no useful information (don't ask me  :-\, that's what the physicists say)

Sorry, back to the drawing board :(
But...if one had two magnetic plates spinning in opposition. Im kidding. Sorry. I still, maybe the lawyer type in me, wants to 'break down" the current accepted theories.
1) the "rounding off" (and even new "standards" for basic measurements, as we've discussed before- I hope you watched that interesting BBC show,) also how science can't reproduce many experiments within perceived acceptable levels, especially in certain realms (bad term, but, say "small".)
2) derailing thread here- but I've never understood, like Zeno, I guess so good company though centuries later and so, presumed should be smarter, "Half-lives." First time I heard coach ("teaching") about isotopes. Either the description is bad. Or wrong. Or I'm crazy; but how can anything halved ever disappear and how can anything, at some fundamental smallest particle, divide? I'm guessing semantics and "half-life" is just some catch-phrase. But the point, still, in interesting;, maybe?


sorefinger

Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on September 26, 2015, 10:38:45 PM
I hate to be the naysayer, but I would like to point out a couple of things.   The idea that you could rig a cable or a pole between two distant objects to overcome the speed of light is a common one, but unfortunately incorrect.   Apart from the physical limitations of there being no materials that could deal with the incredible stresses involved to overcome its own inertia, all of the atoms in such a cable would be bound together by electromagnetic forces.   Electromagnetic forces are mediated by the photon, and so no force could propogate along a cable faster than the speed of light.

The second thing is gravity.  It is a consequence of Einstein's Theory of Relativity that gravity must propogate at the speed of light.  It is a difficult thing to measure, but experiments have supported this as being true.  It is generally accepted that gravity cannot travel faster than light.

To put it in more general terms, what we call the speed of light is more correctly the speed of information.  It is as quickly as information about forces can be transferred.  Quantum entanglement gets around this by transferring no useful information (don't ask me  :-\, that's what the physicists say)

Sorry, back to the drawing board :(

You completely missed the point, probably distracted by the naysayer in you.  You can't deny that my theory helps one to wrap his head around how electrons communicate with each other at far ends of the universe.

SciFiAuthor

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
We do need somebody who will listen!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/george-noory-willing-to-accept-draft-for-white-house-run/

Art

I don't think the cat lady vote is substantial enough to get him past Trump. 

Art Bell

Actually the latest is that Quantum twisting may allow communication,!another words only a partial flip as opposed to the classic on/off or up/down behavior.

Art


albrecht

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
We do need somebody who will listen!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/george-noory-willing-to-accept-draft-for-white-house-run/

Art
Good Lord. I tremble for my country. But, then again, I'm not against (peaceful, not range war or violence) some devolution for more States, Local, and personal rights. Maybe a contest between the Donald, the mustachioed charlatan, and Billary could cause people to say. Screw this, let's take care of our own business and let other people alone!

SciFiAuthor

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:10:18 PM
Actually the latest is that Quantum twisting may allow communication,!another words only a partial flip as opposed to the classic on/off or up/down behavior.

Art

Maybe SETI is looking in the wrong place and that high energy radio broadcasting is only a tiny stage in a civilization's development and that the more developed a civilization becomes the more radio silent they go. Maybe Seth should be studying quantum communication methods.

zeebo

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on September 26, 2015, 11:14:36 PM
Maybe SETI is looking in the wrong place and that high energy radio broadcasting is only a tiny stage in a civilization's development and that the more developed a civilization becomes the more radio silent they go. Maybe Seth should be studying quantum communication methods.

Actually my theory is some of them have probably withdrawn into their own super-advanced virtual realities.  Our first detection may just be the infrared heat coming off their mega-watt game servers.

SciFiAuthor

Quote from: zeebo on September 26, 2015, 11:20:53 PM
Actually my theory is some of them have probably withdrawn into their own super-advanced virtual realities.  Our first detection may just be the infrared heat coming off their mega-watt game servers.

My theory is that advanced civilizations go through Type I to Type II in just a few years as superintelligence is achieved. Then, as you say, they retreat into virtual realities. But they wouldn't emit much heat because they would have gone nanotechnological and merged with their nanotech and become incorporeal. A highly advanced civilization may simply appear as a fog bank on an otherwise completely natural looking planet. They would need no structures of any kind and would consume very little power. The only way to detect them would be spectrographically or looking for very low energy RF from the communications of the nanorobots.

No civilization ever reaches Type III because there simply isn't any reason to travel in space when you've retreated into a virtual reality utopia. To hell with the universe.

sorefinger

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on September 26, 2015, 10:52:26 PM
Another way to look at it is that things may be distant from each other in this dimension, but not necessarily in other dimensions.

Exactly.  I'm completely open to the idea of multiple dimensions, including a dimension of wisdom, which helps explain how an animal, such as a horse (never mind a tiny ant or even bacteria), with a brain the size of only a walnut, has so much intelligence, epecially intuitiveness, it does not need to go to school in order to survive.  Well, its brain may simply be a transducer for communicating with a dimension of wisdom.  Of course, humans have devolved to the point where their transducer no longer works, thus, humana have to go to school in order to survive.

Meister_000

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
We do need somebody who will listen!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/george-noory-willing-to-accept-draft-for-white-house-run/

Art

Oh my God, that's just too sick!!

. . . host of . . . “Coast to Coast AM”, told WND he is willing to accept a draft to run for president in 2016.

“Am I running?” Noory asked rhetorically. “I have no plans to run. But enough people have come forward to say, ‘With your vast support, with your knowledge of affairs domestically and internationally , this may be the best time for you to make a run for the White House . . .’”


The village idiot's "knowledge" !?!? God help us!

sorefinger

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:10:18 PM
Actually the latest is that Quantum twisting may allow communication,!another words only a partial flip as opposed to the classic on/off or up/down behavior.

Art

Darn it, Art.  Now I've got to come up with another theory to wrap my head around quantum twisting.

Dateline

I am much more impressed that you can receive Art starting October 1, 2015, with a flip of a switch than I am a pizza roll in every microwave.  That would  be the campaign promise.

It's like King of the Hill, next he will be Captain Universe.


albrecht

Quote from: jazmunda on September 26, 2015, 11:51:19 PM
Who wants to join me on Mars if this happens?
I'm picking another. Obama and lawyers; again. No thanks. Something better than Mars!

Heather Wade

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
We do need somebody who will listen!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/george-noory-willing-to-accept-draft-for-white-house-run/

Art

The "I Think I'm Losing My Mind" Line would have to be opened every night if this were allowed to happen. 

Scully

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
We do need somebody who will listen!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/george-noory-willing-to-accept-draft-for-white-house-run/

Art

When I read something this sublimely assinnine, I sink to the level of wishing it would actually happen so I could just stand back and watch the insanity that would insue in the few days before someone would put a stop to such a presidency with whatever force seemed most appropriate at the time.

Does that make me a bad person?  :-*


littlechris

Quote from: (Redacted) on September 27, 2015, 12:03:04 AM
The "I Think I'm Losing My Mind" Line would have to be opened every night if this were allowed to happen.

OH CRAP!!  Hey Red!!! Long time no see!  Hope all is well. Keep up the good work girlie!

Meister_000

Quote from: (Redacted) on September 27, 2015, 12:03:04 AM
The "I Think I'm Losing My Mind" Line would have to be opened every night if this were allowed to happen.

Indeed! He's already "the National Embarrassment", and long ago proved himself "Unfit to Command" a dinghy, let alone literally "Coast to Coast"!


RoseGirl

Quote from: Art Bell on September 26, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
We do need somebody who will listen!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/george-noory-willing-to-accept-draft-for-white-house-run/

Art


I, myself, think the Numbers Lady would make an excellent Secretary of The Treasury.

Meister_000

Quote from: skidder on September 27, 2015, 12:31:57 AM
The thing I like about Dave, is he just has no ego.

What really DID drive me Crazy enough for the "Think I'm Loosing My Mind" line, was, Dave's fancying himself  "an intuitive" -- of all things and of all people!!
Delusional is generous!


Meister_000

Quote from: jazmunda on September 26, 2015, 11:51:19 PM
Who wants to join me on Mars if this happens?

I'd at least join you for a Mutiny!

Then again, look how far he's gotten with his level of intelligence and talent, and the amount of effort he puts into things. 

He's barely qualified to make sandwiches at the local deli, yet here he is every night on national radio - why wouldn't he think being President is the next logical step?

Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod