• Welcome to BellGab.com Archive.
 

POTUS Makes Good On Threat-U.S. Strike Kills Senior Iranian Commander Soleimani

Started by starrmtn001, January 02, 2020, 11:06:18 PM

Kidnostad3

The first thing that came to mind was that the Uranian airliner might have been taken down by nervous triple A gunners.  No conclusive evidence of that in video and there won't be unless pieces of flak are imbedded.   Holes in fuselage could be the the result of an engine explosion.  There are rumors that the plane was taken down by sabotage or even by a shoulder borne AA missile during takeoff climb. The fact that Iran Govt. is being extra cagey about release of black box and its retraction of their early statements bothers me a bit.  I don't know international law concerning air disasters but it seems to me that ultimately the black box belongs to Ukraine with a provision for initial examination by country in which crash occurred. 

One thing for sure is that there will be endless speculation and and conspiracy theories no matter what the official findings.

https://youtu.be/Fh1ghsPplhQ


"Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, EH?
"  --Doctor Strangelove

This is what happens when the robots take over the World:
https://www.wnd.com/2020/01/u-s-officials-believe-ukraine-jetliner-shot

Pentagon and U.S. intelligence officials believe the Ukraine Airlines jet that crashed Wednesday in Tehran killing 176 people was shot down by an Iranian anti-aircraft system.

Newsweek cited three security officials who believe a Russia-built Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile struck the airliner as it headed to Kiev as Iran launched missiles at two U.S. bases in Iraq.


aldousburbank

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on January 09, 2020, 12:34:18 PM
The first thing that came to mind was that the Uranian airliner might have been taken down by nervous triple A gunners.  No conclusive evidence of that in video and there won't be unless pieces of flak are imbedded.   Holes in fuselage could be the the result of an engine explosion.  There are rumors that the plane was taken down by sabotage or even by a shoulder borne AA missile during takeoff climb. The fact that Iran Govt. is being extra cagey about release of black box and its retraction of their early statements bothers me a bit.  I don't know international law concerning air disasters but it seems to me that ultimately the black box belongs to Ukraine with a provision for initial examination by country in which crash occurred. 

One thing for sure is that there will be endless speculation and and conspiracy theories no matter what the official findings.

https://youtu.be/Fh1ghsPplhQ

President Trump should call the president of Ukraine and have him look into it lest we withhold aid.

Quote from: starrmtn001 on January 08, 2020, 11:46:42 PM
Thank you for the X22 video link.  I wasn't paying attention or I would have posted myself.  Thank you for covering me arse. ;) ;D :-*

Kissing up won't spare you from having it docked from your pay.

VC

Quote from: Uncle Duke on January 09, 2020, 11:38:20 AM
BBC News - Iran 'mistakenly shot down Ukraine jet' - US media
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51055219

I suspected this after seeing photos of the debris field.

The BBC is irresponsible to project the idea this was in any way an accident. No way!

The fucking radar and lock-on and kill was initiated by humans that knew where this commercial airliner was coming from. Tehran! You idiots!

That means someone purposely shot down the airliner, period. Someone, either rouge or not, knew exactly what they were doing.

BBC and "accidental" Dumb Asses! Fuck you liars!

No excuses!

ItsOver

Quote from: aldousburbank on January 09, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
President Trump should call the president of Ukraine and have him look into it lest we withhold aid.
Plus, collude with Putin to cover things up.  Come on crazy Nancy and Chucky, get busy with your wacko accusations.

Quote from: VC on January 09, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
The BBC is irresponsible to project the idea this was in any way an accident. No way!

The fucking radar and lock-on and kill was initiated by humans that knew where this commercial airliner was coming from. Tehran! You idiots!

That means someone purposely shot down the airliner, period. Someone, either rouge or not, knew exactly what they were doing.

BBC and "accidental" Dumb Asses! Fuck you liars!

No excuses!

Someone with evidence against the Bidens?

Uncle Duke

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on January 09, 2020, 12:34:18 PM
The first thing that came to mind was that the Uranian airliner might have been taken down by nervous triple A gunners.  No conclusive evidence of that in video and there won't be unless pieces of flak are imbedded.   Holes in fuselage could be the the result of an engine explosion.  There are rumors that the plane was taken down by sabotage or even by a shoulder borne AA missile during takeoff climb. The fact that Iran Govt. is being extra cagey about release of black box and its retraction of their early statements bothers me a bit.  I don't know international law concerning air disasters but it seems to me that ultimately the black box belongs to Ukraine with a provision for initial examination by country in which crash occurred. 

One thing for sure is that there will be endless speculation and and conspiracy theories no matter what the official findings.

https://youtu.be/Fh1ghsPplhQ

ICAO agreements, to which I assume Iran is party to, give primary investigative authority to the nation where the crash occurred. As lead investigator, they are allowed to call in others in support, and generally included the appropriate civil aviation authority from the airline flag nation, the airline,  the a/c manufacturer, and others with a vested interest.  I'm not aware of a case where a commercial airliner was lost and the lead nation shut out others from participating in the investigation.  If it has happened previously, it was probably in the ME, or somehow connected to RoC/PRC.

Jackstar

Quote from: VC on January 09, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
someone purposely shot down the airliner, period. Someone, either rouge or not, knew exactly what they were doing

Uhm... duh.


Quote from: VC on January 09, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
BBC and "accidental" Dumb Asses! Fuck you liars!




Quote from: VC on January 09, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
No excuses!

Welcome to the party, Pal.


Quote from: VC on January 09, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
rouge

IS THIS... CODE?



Quote from: Uncle Duke on January 09, 2020, 01:26:02 PM
ICAO agreements, to which I assume Iran is party to, give primary investigative authority to the nation where the crash occurred. As lead investigator, they are allowed to call in others in support, and generally included the appropriate civil aviation authority from the airline flag nation, the airline,  the a/c manufacturer, and others with a vested interest.  I'm not aware of a case where a commercial airliner was lost and the lead nation shut out others from participating in the investigation.  If it has happened previously, it was probably in the ME, or somehow connected to RoC/PRC.

I don't know about ICAO, but Iran is not party to any international copyright or performing rights agreements.  BMI keeps trying to collect from restaurants which only play music from Iran, anyway, though.

http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/did_trump_send_TWA800_signal_at_montoursville.htm
Did Trump Send TWA 800 Signal at Montoursville?
Jack Cashill
May 22, 2019 - WND.com

On Monday, President Donald Trump held a rally in Montoursville, Pennsylvania.

Not many people have heard of Montoursville, a pleasant little town of fewer than 5,000 people. But those who have include the CIA analysts, FBI honchos, and Clinton White House operatives who orchestrated the cover-up of the TWA 800 crash.

On July 17, 1996, the ill-fated 747 was shot down off the coast of Long Island, almost surely by accident, killing all 230 people on board.

Among the dead were 16 French club students from Montoursville High School and five of their chaperones. I have been to Montoursville and spoken with people who lost their children. They are still waiting for answers.

Many people are waiting for answers, including the hundreds of TWA veterans with whom I have spoken, most recently at a heavily attended LAX event led by retired TWA Captain Al Francis.

The TWA vets lost 53 of their colleagues on board that plane. If there is one among them who buys the government line that a rogue spark blew up the center fuel tank, I have not met him or her.

A question I have heard often, and I suspect Captain Francis has too, is whether President Trump can or will reopen the investigation, there being no riper example of deep state treachery than the TWA 800 investigation.

I am not optimistic, but Monday’s rally gave me a glimmer of hope. In the special congressional election held the following day, Republican Fred Keller did not need the president’s help: he won by a greater than 2-1 margin.

Presuming that the election inspired the trip, the obvious site of the rally should have been the nearby and much larger Williamsport, the county seat and celebrated home of the Little League World Series.

Indeed, there are many towns in Pennsylvania’s twelfth district larger than Montoursville. But the president chose Montoursville.

If they do not know this already, here, in brief, is what Trump’s people need to know.

According to an air traffic controller at NY TRACON, “A primary radar return (ASR-9) indicated vertical movement intersecting TWA 800,” and then “TWA800” disappeared.

As anti-terror czar Richard Clarke tells it, he immediately called a high level meeting in the White House situation room.

Illegally, but publicly, the FBI seized control of the investigation from the NTSB within hours of the crash.

According to CIA documents, “The DI [Directorate of Intelligence] became involved in the ‘missile theory’ the day after the crash occurred.”

The CIA’s George Tenet told the 9/11 Commission in March 2004 that a “wall” prevented the CIA and FBI from cooperating on national security issues.

As the CIA documents prove, the CIA and FBI collaborated uneasily on the TWA 800 investigation for the next sixteen months, wall or no wall.

According to the CIA, within two weeks of the disaster, FBI agents had interviewed 144 “excellent” eyewitnesses to a likely missile strike and found the evidence for such a strike “overwhelming.”

The CIA analyst boasted of discouraging the FBI from releasing its missile report. He seems to have succeeded.

Two weeks later, the FBI permitted the New York Times to interview one and only one eyewitness. He saw the event out of the corner of his eye and thought it was a bomb.

The NTSB eventually identified 258 eyewitnesses who had seen a glowing object streaking towards TWA 800.
At least 56 had followed the object from the horizon.

The Times interviewed none of 258.

The eyewitnesses were not easily explained away. With the NTSB illegally shut out of witness review, the FBI turned the task over to the CIA.

Working with just one-third of the witness statements, the CIA concluded that the eyewitnesses saw the aircraft ascend more than 3,000 feet after a spontaneous explosion blew off the plane’s nose.

In April 1997, the head of the FBI missile team, Steve Bongardt, bucked the brass and demanded to know why the CIA failed to account for the eight witnesses who saw an object “hit the aircraft.” The CIA blew him off.

Instead, the CIA created a specious animation to promote its exploding fuel tank theory. The FBI showed the animation once, when it closed the criminal case in November 1997.

To sell this lie, as the CIA documents prove, the CIA created at least three critical witness statements from whole cloth and flagrantly corrupted more than two hundred others.

The deputy attorney general who successfully oversaw the investigation, Jamie Gorelick, left the DOJ in 1997 to take a job with Fannie Mae. She would make more than $25 million over the next six years.

In 2004, Gorelick left Fannie Mae to become a 9-11 Commissioner.

In April 2004, AG John Ashcroft testified to the 9-11 Commission, “The single greatest structural cause for Sept. 11 was the wall.”

Full disclosure,” Ashcroft continued, “compels me to inform you that its author is a member of the commission.” Yes, that commissioner was Jamie Gorelick.

As the nation learned in the aftermath of 9/11, the “wall” that was breached all too easily to protect the secrets of TWA 800 held much too firmly when it came to the secrets of our enemies.

Those responsible for the cover-up had to sleep just a wee bit uneasily Monday night. They know what “Montoursville” means. Here’s hoping the president does too.

http://www.cashill.com/twa800


Did Loretta Fuddy Get “Ron Browned”?

Jack Cashill 
WND.com - December 18, 2013

Loretta Fuddy (left), the Hawaiian official responsible for the release of Barack Obama’s birth certificate, died last week in a small plane crash off the island of Molokai.

That the plane crashed was enough to raise suspicions among those who follow these things. That she was the only one of the nine onboard to die heightened those suspicions, especially given the conflicting accounts of how she alone failed to survive.

More than a few people have asked my opinion on this given that I wrote a book on a case with some parallelsâ€"the death of then Commerce Secretary Ron Brown in an April 1996 plane crash in Croatia.

When I was offered a book contract on the Brown case, I accepted with one major stipulation: If the evidence suggested that Brown died accidentally, I would report just that.

At the time I believed the most likely explanation would prove to be either an accident or possibly a terrorist incident covered-up for the sake of political expediency.

For that reason, I chose to focus on why the plane went up. What I learned was that in its illicit pursuit of campaign cash, the White House frequently and needlessly put its principal bagman, the secretary of Commerce, in harm’s way.

In exploring Ron Brown’s life, however, I came to see just how desperate were its circumstances, especially at the end. I also came to see how deeplyâ€"and willfullyâ€"flawed was the investigation into his death.

Incredibly, although I was doing my research seven years after the crash, I was the first person in the media to request the US Air Force’s 22-volume accident investigation report.

What I learned from the report was that Brown had gone to Croatia to broker a sweetheart deal between the neo-fascist strongman who ran Croatia, Franjo Tudjman, and the Enron Corporation.

Brown’s flight left from Tuzla in Bosnia, a Muslim country swarming with mujahideen. This flight came just nine days after Hillary Clinton deviated from her European tour to visit Tuzla (where, by the way, she was buzzed by that apocryphal “sniper fire.”)

The media narrative, however, could not even hint at terror. “Brown’s entourage boarded an Air Force T-43 for the coastal town of Dubrovnik,” asserted a Time magazine reporter following the White House’s lead on the cause of the crash, “where one of the worst storms in a decade was raging.”

In reality, when Brown’s plane approached Dubrovnik, it was not raining, and the sun was peaking through the clouds. The Enron executives had taken their own plane and landed safely minutes earlier.

Intriguingly, the liaison between Enron and the Tudjmans, a naturalized American named Zdenka Gast had been scheduled to fly with Brown but thought better of it.

Ambassador Peter Galbraith told Air Force Capt. John Cairney, “There were problems inâ€"inâ€"in thisâ€"in concluding this deal where they wanted to sign a letter of intent, and so, rather thanâ€"than go on the Brown trip, she stayed with the Inron [sic] people to do the final negotiations.”

“We’ve been looking for her,” volunteered Cairney. The Air Force obviously did not look too hard. Investigators conducted 148 witness interviews, but Gast was not among them. I found her in five minutes of searching. She did not return my phone calls.

Inquiring into Gast’s background, I came across a Croatian language magazine article with a photo of Gast standing in the center of three smiling women. On her left was the then Secretary of Labor, Alexis Herman. On her right was none other than Hillary Clinton.

The occasion was Herman’s wedding reception at the Clinton White House four years after the crash. There were only about forty people in attendance including the Clintons, the Gores, “several governors and senators,” and, yes, Gast.

There were more wrinkles. For the first time ever on friendly soil, the White House ordered the Air Force to skip the “safety” phase of the investigation and move directly to the “accident” phase.

There was to be no consideration other than accident, even though this airport was near the Bosnian border and in a potential hot fire zone.

The Air Force called the pilot’s nearly two-mile deviation into a Croatian hillside “inexplicable.” No aircraft had ever drifted inland before at that airport. The AWACS data suggested sabotage of the ground-based navigation system, a line of inquiry that the Air Force was not allowed to pursue.

Three days after the crash and two days before his scheduled interview by the Air Force, the Croatian responsible for the airport’s navigation system was found with a bullet hole in his chest. The Tudjmans called it a suicide.

A day later, every pathologist who viewed Brown’s body concluded that his head wound, at the very least, looked like a bullet hole. In a decision that reached the White House, there was to be no autopsy. The Brown family was not informed. Nor was there any forensic testing or a search for an exit wound.

The Clintons used a reluctant Air Force and a nearly mutinous Armed Forces Institute of Pathology to bury Ron Brown as quickly as possible, literally and figuratively.

The three Armed Forces pathologists and the forensic photographer who blew the whistle on this case were dispatched to career-killing dead end jobs.

Brown confidante and whistleblower, Nolanda Butler Hill, was threatened by then Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder . She spent a year in hiding before being arrested and imprisoned on a bogus tax charge.

Although there was not enough evidence to accuse the Clintons of plotting Brown’s death, there was more than enough to accuse themâ€"and the media--of not wanting to know how he died.

At this stage of the Fuddy case, there is not nearly enough evidence to accuse anyone of anything, but there are enough unanswered questions to want to know more.

But as with Brown, don’t expect any help from the media. The New York Times lost a reporter in the Brown crash, and even the Times did not bother to request the USAF report.

http://cashill.com/ronbrown/did_loretta_fuddy.htm


Hillary, Why Did You Go To Bosnia In The First Place?

Jack Cashill 
Posted: WorldNetDaily.com - March 27, 2008

As has become painfully normative, Hillary, the major media ask you all the wrong questions.

The current controversy centers on whether you and your daughter Chelsea actually had to dodge sniper fire upon your landing at the airport in Tuzla in Bosnia on March 25,1996.

The photographic evidence seems to suggest otherwise. But sniper fire or not, as you and I both know, this really was risky business.

As testament to how dangerous trips in and out of Bosnia could be, just nine days later, another U.S. Air Force plane carrying American officials took off from that same Tuzla airport and crashed “inexplicably” near the Croatian-Bosnian border.


Above: Mountain side crash site of Ron Brown plane

The crash killed all 35 people on board. Risky indeed! NATO command center would warn helicopter pilots searching for the downed aircraft to steer clear of active SA-6 surface-to-air missile sites within the Bosnian borders.

You understood the risk. In your memoir, Living History, you tell how you and Chelsea had to wear flak jackets and sit in a reinforced cockpit in case of snipers or ground-to-air missiles, and there is no reason to doubt you.

The right question, Hillary, is not whether this trip was dangerousâ€"it clearly was--but why you took Chelsea on such a trip in the first place.

According to your schedule, you spent no more than nine hours in country, did little of consequence while there, and yet exposed Chelsea to considerable risk both coming and going.

At the time, you told the press that you wanted “to visit our troops and to say ‘Thank you.’” The White House even made a point of noting that “no first lady since Eleanor Roosevelt has made a trip into such a hostile military environment.”

In Living History, you offered a more nuanced reason for your visit: “The administration wanted to send a strong signal that the peace accords were to be honored and would be enforced.”

You also anticipated the question of why you and Bill would willingly put your 16 year-old in harm’s way. Your answer: the experience would help Chelsea “mature.” As the father of two daughters, I don’t buy that.

I have a nagging suspicion that there was something more involved, and it likely involves the fate of the lead official killed on that doomed flight out of Tuzla on April 3, nine days later.

That official, of course, was Bill’s beleaguered and increasingly desperate Secretary of Commerce, Ron Brown, the classic “man who knew too much.”

In the way of background, when I accepted the commission to write the book, Ron Brown’s Body, the publishers agreed to live with the possibility that the Brown plane crash was an accident.

I had presumed it was either that or a terrorist incident whose investigation was corrupted for political reasonsâ€"as happened occasionally in the run up to the 1996 election.


Above: The late Ron Brown

In this case, as you recall, Bill had sent Brown to Croatia to broker a sweetheart deal between the neo-fascist Croatian president, Franjo Tudjman, and an American corporation much-favored during your White House years, Enron. Remember them?

As you know, Hillary, the crash spawned more than a few conspiracy theories, some of which I was able to disprove, like the involvement of U.S. Special Forces or the murder of a surviving Air Force flight attendant.

Some facts, however, refused to go away, including the skullduggery of Croatian intelligence, headed at the time by Tudjman’s son, Miroslav.

Best evidence suggests that Croatian intelligence agents lured the plane into a mountainside through the use of a rogue beacon and then diverted NATO search and rescue operations over the Adriatic for at least four hours.

In the interim, these agents found the wreckage and administered a final coup de grace to Brown’s otherwise intact bodyâ€"the very real hole in the top of his head, likely a bullet hole.

As it happens, airport aviation manager Nike Jerkuic had been “off” the day the plane crashed. Three days later, the day before USAF investigators were scheduled to talk to him, Jerkuic showed up dead with a bullet hole in his chest. Croatian authorities called Jerkuic’s death a “suicide.”

Our media chose not to investigate Jerkuic’s death or Brown’s or the Enron connection for that matter. Remember, they were on your side back then and the Croats’ as well.

Both you and the Croats had also gotten a pass from the media just months earlier, in August 1995, when Croatian forces ethnically cleansed the Krajina area of its Serbian population.

Within a matter of days, as you recall, the Croats drove more than 200,000 Serbs from their homes and killed some 14,000 Serbian civilians. According to a UN official “Almost the only people remaining were the dead and the dying.”

Unfortunately, Hillary, you guys had your hand in this, tactically and strategically. The White House gave the Croats the green light, as did Peter Galbraith, your ambassador to Croatia.

“Tudjman can do only what the Americans allow him to do,” said Stipe Mesic, a prominent Croatian politician of the era. “Krajina is the reward for having accepted, under Washington’s pressure, the federation between Croats and Muslims in Bosnia.”

Still, as rough as the Croats could be, they had absolutely no motive for killing Ron Brown. Tudjman, as the man said, could do only what the Americans allowed him to do.

Even if Tudjman did have personal reasons to cooperate--he was suffering from cancer and likely facing a trip to the Hague to be tried as a war criminal--he would not have dared to assassinate Brown without an undeniably “strong signal” from someone in the White House.

Without even knowing it Hillary, your trip to Tuzla may have been the signal of White House seriousness that Tudjman needed to proceed.

His cooperation would seem to have paid off. In November 1996, just one week after the president’s re-election, Tudjman traveled not to The Hague to be tried but to the Walter Reed Hospital in Washington to be treated.

The media may be asking you irrelevant questions now, Hillary, but consider yourself lucky. Back in the day, when it still mattered, they weren’t asking you any real questions at all.

http://cashill.com/ronbrown/hIllary_why_bosnia.htm






Uncle Duke

I think the Iranians will use the same defense the US used when the Vincennes shot down the Iranian airliner......a snapshot in time judgement call made by a commander in a state of high alert during an actual combat operation.  In all likelihood that's what happened in both cases. 

Quote from: Uncle Duke on January 09, 2020, 02:36:19 PM
I think the Iranians will use the same defense the US used when the Vincennes shot down the Iranian airliner......a snapshot in time judgement call made by a commander in a state of high alert during an actual combat operation.  In all likelihood that's what happened in both cases.

1st satellite photos showing results of Iran attack on U.S. base emerge

https://youtu.be/y0vviH-Nu-8

"Some of the locations struck look like the missiles hit dead center," said David Schmerler, an analyst with the Middlebury Institute, according to NPR.

Schmerler said that although the images show the outcome of the attack, they do not reveal its full motivation.

“They targeted the American portion of the base. They meant to hit it and they did hit it,” Jeffrey Lewis said, according to Reuters.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley also said Iran's barrage was more than symbolic.

"I believe based on what I saw and what I know that they were intended to cause structural damage, destroy vehicles and equipment and aircraft and to kill personnel, that's my own personal assessment," he said, according to CNN.

Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi said Iran telegraphed its punch by providing a warning to Iraq, allowing personnel at the base to take cover.

The Washington Post, citing what it called "U.S. military officials" it did not name, said American forces knew about the coming strike hours in advance and were in fortified bunkers when the missiles fell.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/01/first-satellite-photos-showing-results-iran-attack-us-base-emerge/

Jackstar

I don't get the notion that what passes as '"the government" in Iran' isn't merely a façade that conceals the real font of power in the region. I really don't.

If it were the typical Americentric interests that wanted Soleimani whacked, you'd have seen a buildup in the popular media to front run that. So the Executive's sudden interest in killing a heretofore never-spoken-of "terrorist" must be the result of a recent intelligence development--or some kind of deal.

I've seen quite a split in how Soleimani is portrayed. Half of my study turns up quotes like "he was a hero, how dare they" and the rest is an avalanche of new Goldstein-ism, and I feel like the sole voice going, "Solei-who?"

MV/Liberace!

Quote from: Stupid Robbings on January 07, 2020, 07:55:02 PM
Persian friends of mine, supported the Shaw of Iran, and had to flee during the Revolution. 

This sounds nuts, even to me, but they say that it was the United States that instigated the Revolution, because the Shaw was becoming too, nationalistic in defiance of the US.  My friends were happy with the interest free loans and Western acculturation with the Shaw's regime.

Another Persian American, told me that the people of Iran all loved Ayatollah Khomeini like everyone's favorite uncle, but that his revolution got hijacked by the bad guys we see today.

Shah.


Quote from: Jackstar on January 09, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I don't get the notion that what passes as '"the government" in Iran' isn't merely a façade that conceals the real font of power in the region. I really don't.

If it were the typical Americentric interests that wanted Soleimani whacked, you'd have seen a buildup in the popular media to front run that. So the Executive's sudden interest in killing a heretofore never-spoken-of "terrorist" must be the result of a recent intelligence development--or some kind of deal.

I've seen quite a split in how Soleimani is portrayed. Half of my study turns up quotes like "he was a hero, how dare they" and the rest is an avalanche of new Goldstein-ism, and I feel like the sole voice going, "Solei-who?"

President Trump says Soleimani was about to attack the US Embassy. 
Saudi Arabia needs $100.00 per barrel oil for their IPO. 
Take your pick.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/01/trump-soleimani-targeting-embassy

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2019/12/18/saudi-aramco-ipo-hits-2-trillion-mark-but-forecast-still-guarded/#6b8df6a942e6

https://youtu.be/d_mLFHLSULw






Kidnostad3

What is certain is that shit happens in situations like this. There have been many instances throughout history of innocents being killed and fratricide occurring that was directly attributable to "war nerves" or "the fog of war."   One of the more memorable was the Battle of Los Angeles that took place shortly after Pearl Harbor.  Several civilians were killed by falling flack from Triple A rounds and several others from vehicle accidents, fires, heart attacks etc. associated with the event.   

Until I hear a convincing argument as to who stood to benefit from taking down the A/C, I tend to think it was a fuck-up on the part of the Iranian military if the crash is not found to be due to mechanical, electrical or structural failure, pilot error or faulty maintenance. 

K_Dubb

I get what you are saying Jacky, and I'm glad you said it because I didn't think of that, but I don't think it is necessary in order to explain the killing -- you don't have to look further than the reported "this will not be another Benghazi".  The embassy was attacked and he was there to stir up more trouble.  That is just big-picture enough (since the embassy attack was last week I think) to elude the 24-hour attention span of most observers and vague enough to frustrate tedious wonks who want a criminal case laid out.  Which they will never get.

Strategic arguments, cobbled together after the fact, are doomed to fall short because it was symbolic.  I do not mean that it was meaningless -- symbols are pregnant with meaning that always defy modern analysis -- but that it is more like the old days when the fleet would anchor off Algiers for a three-hour bombardment, then haul anchor and sail away.  Just slightly less indiscriminate.



Juan

Quote from: Uncle Duke on January 09, 2020, 02:36:19 PM
I think the Iranians will use the same defense the US used when the Vincennes shot down the Iranian airliner......a snapshot in time judgement call made by a commander in a state of high alert during an actual combat operation.  In all likelihood that's what happened in both cases.
What fun is that?


Kidnostad3

Quote from: Stupid Robbings on January 09, 2020, 02:00:44 PM
I don't know about ICAO, but Iran is not party to any international copyright or performing rights agreements.  BMI keeps trying to collect from restaurants which only play music from Iran, anyway, though. 

Why do you persist in wallpapering these boards with your lengthy random musings?  Those who take-up most of a page to say a whole lot about nothing make me cranky. 




Hog

Quote from: VC on January 09, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
The BBC is irresponsible to project the idea this was in any way an accident. No way!

The fucking radar and lock-on and kill was initiated by humans that knew where this commercial airliner was coming from. Tehran! You idiots!

That means someone purposely shot down the airliner, period. Someone, either rouge or not, knew exactly what they were doing.

BBC and "accidental" Dumb Asses! Fuck you liars!

No excuses!

ROGUE


https://youtu.be/_17CaSSuRUM


Rouge is something I put on my cheeks. NO EXCUSES!

peace
Hog

Uncle Duke

Quote from: Juan on January 09, 2020, 04:44:44 PM
What fun is that?

If they try to deny, intel data may show they are not telling the truth.  If they come clean and admit an accidental shootdown, US Intel may be their best evidence it was nothing more than a tragic mistake. It also would give the two nations something to build on and make the Iranians seem less villainous to the world. The ultimate win-win, if the US is willing to potentially disclose intelligence sources and methods.  Remember Reagan, over the objections of his intel advisors, did that to prove the Soviets knew they were shooting down a commercial airliner.



Kidnostad3

Quote from: aldousburbank on January 09, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
President Trump should call the president of Ukraine and have him look into it lest we withhold aid.

No doubt Guiliani is presently on the ground in Kiev twisting arms to make it happen.

P.S.  Droll dude, very droll.  Your post deserves greater appreciation.







Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod